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RE: Few going to heaven - 7/19/2008 11:52:35 AM
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beachcooky
Posts: 626
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quote:
ORIGINAL: whatislove
I saw this video on youtube called "Will you make it to heaven". I always thought that not too many people were going to heaven. After I watched that, i'm now realizing that it's fewer than I thought.
Thoughts, opinions?
What do you mean FEWER people?
There's not like 5 Christians on this earth that are going to go to heaven.
There's TONS of Christians who have Jesus Christ in their lives.
Don't listen to that youtube video. They obviously don't know what they're talking about.
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RE: Few going to heaven - 7/19/2008 12:05:38 PM
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bzirk
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Even if 'tons' are going to heaven (at least 'tons' by our definition), it's good to remember the Lord's desire. Frankly, I'm always touched when I read this passage:
quote:
II Peter 3
9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
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Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Few going to heaven - 7/19/2008 12:09:13 PM
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armydude
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bzirk
Even if 'tons' are going to heaven (at least 'tons' by our definition), it's good to remember the Lord's desire. Frankly, I'm always touched when I read this passage:
quote:
II Peter 3
9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
And compared to that... the ones that will be there will be just a few.
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RE: Few going to heaven - 7/19/2008 8:41:01 PM
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SonInMe1
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So...the only ones going to heaven are the "good" christians?
Do you think that changes can happen in the heart without much outer change?
Lets say a murdering rapist comes to the Lord. He never murders or rapes again. He is in jail and has few opportunites to do the usual good works. Will he make it to heaven?
How about the mentally ill? The people who cannot handle life without medication? Just walking out of the door to get to church is a huge change in their lives....is that "change enough"?
I think when we focus on works....too much...we lose focus on God. In other words...
what standard do we apply to "change" for it to be the evidence of salvation? Would we...or can we...apply that standard to our own lives? Does God have a list of actions we must accomplish to prove our salvation to Him?
Some have amazing works...the big life....the life that just energizes everyone around them. Now, are we all to be like this? If we are not, does that mean we are not saved? That we are just fooling ourselves because we don't have the "poper change" in our lives?
While I agree there must be change in one's life as a christian, what that change is, is not set in stone. Yeah, I understand the fruits. I understand the gifts. I understand God predestined us to do good works.
However, the bible is not specific as to exactly what these good works are. Ok, the bible says we will be kind lets say. Ok, define kind? A kindness could be ma definite action. It could also be an ommission.
Sometimes the line is not so easily defined.
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You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Few going to heaven - 7/19/2008 8:53:27 PM
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armydude
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quote:
Do you think that changes can happen in the heart without much outer change? Do I think it's possible? Yes. Do I think it's likely? No.
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RE: Few going to heaven - 7/19/2008 10:09:05 PM
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humbleinspirit
Posts: 15035
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
So...the only ones going to heaven are the "good" christians?
Do you think that changes can happen in the heart without much outer change?
Lets say a murdering rapist comes to the Lord. He never murders or rapes again. He is in jail and has few opportunites to do the usual good works. Will he make it to heaven?
How about the mentally ill? The people who cannot handle life without medication? Just walking out of the door to get to church is a huge change in their lives....is that "change enough"?
I think when we focus on works....too much...we lose focus on God. In other words...
what standard do we apply to "change" for it to be the evidence of salvation? Would we...or can we...apply that standard to our own lives? Does God have a list of actions we must accomplish to prove our salvation to Him?
Some have amazing works...the big life....the life that just energizes everyone around them. Now, are we all to be like this? If we are not, does that mean we are not saved? That we are just fooling ourselves because we don't have the "poper change" in our lives?
While I agree there must be change in one's life as a christian, what that change is, is not set in stone. Yeah, I understand the fruits. I understand the gifts. I understand God predestined us to do good works.
However, the bible is not specific as to exactly what these good works are. Ok, the bible says we will be kind lets say. Ok, define kind? A kindness could be ma definite action. It could also be an ommission.
Sometimes the line is not so easily defined.
Now are you asking me or people in general instead?
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RE: Few going to heaven - 7/20/2008 1:49:28 AM
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SonInMe1
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quote:
Now are you asking me or people in general instead?
I am asking generally to some very specific issues....
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You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Few going to heaven - 7/27/2008 12:42:56 PM
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fantrim
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Hey! Interesting views. Don't forget the little ones who are innocent. Those who died in the womb, died being aborted, died as young children, died before they were old enough to be accountable. That number must be massive!! I expect they are all in Heaven.
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RE: Few going to heaven - 7/27/2008 1:53:16 PM
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armydude
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quote:
ORIGINAL: fantrim
Hey! Interesting views. Don't forget the little ones who are innocent. Those who died in the womb, died being aborted, died as young children, died before they were old enough to be accountable. That number must be massive!! I expect they are all in Heaven.
Scripture please?
(and no, the call for scripture does not mean I disagree; just that I'd like to see scripture to back that up)
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RE: Few going to heaven - 7/28/2008 5:14:55 AM
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Suebee77
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: jennycnails
I love Jesus with all my heart. I'm stuggling with addiction to pain pills. He tells me so strongly to throw them away or dont buy them and I do it anyway. I have so much faith in him and believe in him so much. Why do I keep doing this and will I make it to heaven if he came now? Please tell me what you think. I need your help and support.
Jesus Himself said;
(Luk 6:46) And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
So I would encourage anyone in your circumstance to;
(2Co 13:5) Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
And maybe, just maybe go back to square one and start all over again.
Thanks
RC
You are so cruel and judgmental! Nothing like Jesus was or what he taught us to be. You might stumble this young believer away from Christ this way. Please keep your "humble" opinions to yourself. Ask God before saying things like this!
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RE: Few going to heaven - 7/28/2008 7:41:23 AM
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armydude
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It's cruel and judgmental to repeat the words of Jesus?
Or is it cruel and judgmental to say that not many people will find the way to heaven? Oh wait, Jesus said that too.
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RE: Few going to heaven - 7/28/2008 1:01:47 PM
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dawnofthemorning
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even though the enemy has been defeated on the cross, Jesus said exactly what he needed to say for those to enter the kingdom of God and heaven........plus he expects every believer to following his foot steps and not just claim salvation but do the acts that Jesus did, and there are few people who even follow that path, even pastors, also, he asks that we endure to the end, most pastors and Christians cannot endure to the end because the enemy is so vile and wicked and people wind up losing there faith in God and turn away or fall away, and he said many will be deceiver by false prophets and teachers, and be led by the Antichrist spirit who acts and claims to be God.........but only Jesus knows how many people are going to heaven, it is already written in his book.....so do not listen to what man has to say but God, and God alone.........Jesus said it is not up to him but his Father GOD-ELI who makes the final declaration as to who gets in and who does not................i know, it sounds very harsh but it is so true........because he does not change, neither does his words change either......
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While I wait for it to pour to fill up this well for sure why not stand and ask this well why art thou dry and why art thou brittle and why art thou rusty and why art thou fallen whom hath thou seeketh to giveth thee water
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RE: Few going to heaven - 7/28/2008 1:25:27 PM
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PopsiLufsJesus
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2 Peter 3:9...I think...
"but the Lord is not slow as some would count slowness, but is patient towards us, not desiring that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."
I KNOW that there is going to be plenty of room in Heaven for all those that do choose to accept Him and follow after Him...
:D
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"What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is preached; and in this I rejoice, yes, and will rejoice."
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RE: Few going to heaven - 7/28/2008 1:28:37 PM
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armydude
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PopsiLufsJesus
2 Peter 3:9...I think...
"but the Lord is not slow as some would count slowness, but is patient towards us, not desiring that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."
I KNOW that there is going to be plenty of room in Heaven for all those that do choose to accept Him and follow after Him...
:D
Exactly. For some reason the posts that I've seen arguing the point of few in heaven seem to say that all it takes is faith in Jesus. That's true. But it doesn't negate that very few (comparatively speaking) will have faith in Jesus. It's not saying that it's hard work to get into heaven. Just that few people will find the way.
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RE: Few going to heaven - 7/28/2008 1:34:06 PM
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PopsiLufsJesus
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A faith in Jesus that produces good works and follows after Him... We cannot just accept Him and then live in sin...I do not believe that at all...
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"What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is preached; and in this I rejoice, yes, and will rejoice."
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RE: Few going to heaven - 7/28/2008 1:34:44 PM
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armydude
Posts: 14791
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PopsiLufsJesus
A faith in Jesus that produces good works and follows after Him... We cannot just accept Him and then live in sin...I do not believe that at all...
AMEN! Faith in Jesus produces a changed life. Anything else was just an emotional high... not salvation.
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RE: Few going to heaven - 7/28/2008 2:43:08 PM
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URForgiven
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PopsiLufsJesus
A faith in Jesus that produces good works and follows after Him... We cannot just accept Him and then live in sin...I do not believe that at all...
Might it not be better to say;
"Jesus, in Whom we have placed our faith, produces good works in and through us."
The temptation is always place ourselves in the position of being who only God Himself can be...
Philippians 2:13
"for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to His good purpose."
Peace
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"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Few going to heaven - 7/28/2008 5:49:18 PM
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PopsiLufsJesus
Posts: 320
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that's a good way of putting it...
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"What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is preached; and in this I rejoice, yes, and will rejoice."
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RE: Few going to heaven - 7/28/2008 6:26:38 PM
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Suebee77
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army dude:
It's cruel to repeat the words of Jesus OUT OF CONTEXT. RC essentially told Jennycnails that she isn't saved because she can't stop her addiction to pain pills. That is so wrong of him!
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RE: Few going to heaven - 7/28/2008 6:31:27 PM
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Suebee77
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quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
quote:
ORIGINAL: PopsiLufsJesus
A faith in Jesus that produces good works and follows after Him... We cannot just accept Him and then live in sin...I do not believe that at all...
Might it not be better to say;
"Jesus, in Whom we have placed our faith, produces good works in and through us."
The temptation is always place ourselves in the position of being who only God Himself can be...
Philippians 2:13
"for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to His good purpose."
Peace
AMEN!
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RE: Few going to heaven - 7/28/2008 8:00:08 PM
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armydude
Posts: 14791
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Suebee77
army dude:
It's cruel to repeat the words of Jesus OUT OF CONTEXT. RC essentially told Jennycnails that she isn't saved because she can't stop her addiction to pain pills. That is so wrong of him!
Go back and read his words again. He did NOT say that. He said, "Examine yourself" and it "may be a good idea to start at square one".
Why get offended if it's not true?
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RE: Few going to heaven - 7/28/2008 8:18:03 PM
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Suebee77
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Because he may have stumbled this young Christian with his words. I feel very protective of young Christians. He should not have been so judgmental of her. Scripture never says we'll be automatically and painlessly released from such vices as tobacco or pain pill addiction. No one is perfect except Christ alone. Jennycnails will have to struggle with her addiction. And to suggest that anyone on this side of Heaven acts perfectly in accordance to God's will is a lie. If anyone claims to be perfect, as RC apparently does, they are a liar, and need to examine themselves.
This whole "few in Heaven" discussion sometimes offends me, because why are we worried about that? Why aren't we spending this time on getting the wonderful Good News to as many people as we can? Why are we acting like Heaven is an exclusive club that we are privileged to belong to? John 3:16 says that Jesus died to save the WORLD from their sins. Whoever believes in Jesus and confesses it with their mouth will be saved. Beyond that is not for us to judge.
"... The LORD does not look at the things man looks at. Man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart."
1 Samuel 16:7b (NIV)
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RE: Few going to heaven - 7/28/2008 8:26:42 PM
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armydude
Posts: 14791
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Suebee77
Because he may have stumbled this young Christian with his words. I feel very protective of young Christians. He should not have been so judgmental of her. Scripture never says we'll be automatically and painlessly released from such vices as tobacco or pain pill addiction. No one is perfect except Christ alone. Jennycnails will have to struggle with her addiction. And to suggest that anyone on this side of Heaven acts perfectly in accordance to God's will is a lie. If anyone claims to be perfect, as RC apparently does, they are a liar, and need to examine themselves.
This whole "few in Heaven" discussion sometimes offends me, because why are we worried about that? Why aren't we spending this time on getting the wonderful Good News to as many people as we can? Why are we acting like Heaven is an exclusive club that we are privileged to belong to? John 3:16 says that Jesus died to save the WORLD from their sins. Whoever believes in Jesus and confesses it with their mouth will be saved. Beyond that is not for us to judge.
"... The LORD does not look at the things man looks at. Man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart."
1 Samuel 16:7b (NIV)
He spoke the truth. The truth very rarely causes people to stumble. Telling people that everything will be okay when it may well not be can cause them to stumble. A harsh truth is still the truth. A gentle lie is still a lie.
And if the "few in heaven" discussion offends you, prove me wrong. Especially when Jesus said it, that'll be difficult.
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RE: Few going to heaven - 7/28/2008 9:31:26 PM
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Suebee77
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armydude,
You just aren't getting my point. You don't seem to possess the gift of mercy, as I do, which makes me take up the case of anyone I think needs it. Scripture can very easily be twisted and mis-used, as scripture itself states, as in 2 Peter 3:16. You and I both need to steep ourselves in the New Testament, taking care to note who Jesus was speaking to, and the context of the words, with prayer for the Holy Spirit's guidance. I hope you understand my meaning.
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RE: Few going to heaven - 7/29/2008 12:53:06 AM
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jmjphe
Posts: 48
Joined: 4/29/2008
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Ya know, things like youtube can be a huge breeding ground for all kinds of lets face it...garbage. I would HIGHLY HIGHLY HIGHLY advise anyone to stay away from it if they are trying to find videos, information, anything of the sort thats media related about Heaven, God, Jesus etc. I mean its a cool website for funny stuff but I'd stay clear if you want Christian related videos or videos even remotley about Chrsitiany or Bible theology.
Edited TOS 5
< Message edited by Kath -- 7/29/2008 8:58:20 AM >
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