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RE: The Ultimate Sacrifice - 7/7/2008 6:20:25 PM
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Konstantinos
Posts: 6847
Joined: 4/14/2005
From: Greece Thessaloniki
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dictionaries have simple definitions to make things understandable. there is no sacrifice without some benefit. just by being willing to sacrifice for someone means you wanted to hence you gain.. doing what you want to. it would have to be a robot to make the sacrifice without any gain, but then its not a sacrifice, its just programming. quote:
In a scenario of pure torture, you would probably never see another human being ever again. There is absolutely no logical reason to choose to continue existing in such a state. if the hypothesis also means that God didnt exist, hence valueing your life first, over the "easy death" then i guess sure. just like a verse says to be happy when you are tortured for Christ instead of giving up and seeking death.( i remember our religion teacher in high school told us that early christians were trying to die when suffering quick. granted all my classmates took that to think that christians back then were crazy and wanted to suicide or were scared of torture when in fact they just merely wanted to be with God faster. which i still disagree with. being able to be tortured to death isnt an excuse to let yourself die. but this is kinda off topic) but a) God exists and b) even then, its too hypothetical to matter anyway. c) at least even if being tortured you are still living, which is better than nothing if supposing that God doesnt exist. maybe most people are too weak for that and maybe the rest are not "sane" as you said, but.. *shrugS*
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RE: The Ultimate Sacrifice - 7/8/2008 9:45:20 AM
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Real_Solitude
Posts: 386
Joined: 5/9/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Konstantinos dictionaries have simple definitions to make things understandable. there is no sacrifice without some benefit. just by being willing to sacrifice for someone means you wanted to hence you gain.. doing what you want to. it would have to be a robot to make the sacrifice without any gain, but then its not a sacrifice, its just programming.quote:
Benefit implies something was gained. A sacrifice can also be the aversion of the loss of a particular thing. Keeping relevant to the example, if you give your life up to save another, you have gained nothing. You have still sacrificed, however, because you were able to choose the thing that your sacrifice protected. You 'gain' nothing from the action, but you fail to loose the other person. quote:
if the hypothesis also means that God didnt exist, hence valueing your life first, over the "easy death" then i guess sure. just like a verse says to be happy when you are tortured for Christ instead of giving up and seeking death.( i remember our religion teacher in high school told us that early christians were trying to die when suffering quick. granted all my classmates took that to think that christians back then were crazy and wanted to suicide or were scared of torture when in fact they just merely wanted to be with God faster. which i still disagree with. being able to be tortured to death isnt an excuse to let yourself die. but this is kinda off topic) but a) God exists and b) even then, its too hypothetical to matter anyway. c) at least even if being tortured you are still living, which is better than nothing if supposing that God doesnt exist. maybe most people are too weak for that and maybe the rest are not "sane" as you said, but.. *shrugS* A. It wouldn't be "for Christ," it would be an action you took on your own accord so that another wouldn't die. B. Hypothetical generally don't matter, but they usually merit consideration anyways. C. Fallacious assumption. There's no inherent reason that pain is better than the cessation of existence.
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"Instead of feeling alone in a group its better to have real solitude all by yourself." ~Faye Valentine
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