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In desperate need of a counselor ASAP - 6/18/2008 11:34:47 PM
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Sonrise
Posts: 110
Joined: 5/19/2007
Status: offline
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Hi,
I don't want to burden everyone with my sob story but my marriage is very bad. My wife refers to me as a "jerk" on an almost daily basis and tells me that if we didn't have our 7 month old daughter she would leave me. I pray for her every night and ask God to make me a better husband. I really try to put my wife before myself. One day I had my daughter with me outside for about 10 minutes and my wife called me a "bad parent" because she has mild ezcema and the sun is bad for her . This broke my heart as I would die for my little girl. I love the two women in my house with all of my heart but our marriage is awful. I try to read the Word and do married couples devotionals and the devotionals usually end up with my wife telling me what I'm doing wrong as per the lesson in the devotional which in turn leads to a fight.
I'm sorry to be speaking bad about my wife, I do try to honor her and bless her and she is an awesome mother and I tell her that every day. Our marriage is awful though. I feel so alone and like such a failure. I try to be the "priest of the home" but my wife is the boss of this house. She has to be in order for any semblance of peace.
We were in marriage counseling when we lived in Los Angeles and after each session she'd usually fume at me that if I "just did what I was supposed to we wouldn't be wasting $75/week on counseling". I told her that trying to heal our marriage isn't a waste. Divorce is not an option, God hates divorce and I love my daughter too much to have her be a part of a broken home. I want to ask my wife to please consider Christian marriage counseling for the sake of our marriage but I'm afraid she'll just say no. She often times tells me that she hates me. Keep in mind I'm not innocent by any stretch but I try and humble myself and forgive and ask for forgiveness.
Anyway, I apologize for doing what I said I wouldn't but I'm so alone and depressed. I don't know how go about finding a Godly counselor in our area. We live in Greenville, SC. If anyone can point me in the right direction, I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you.
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RE: In desperate need of a counselor ASAP - 6/19/2008 1:51:06 AM
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ChoirDJ
Posts: 473
Joined: 6/15/2006
From: So Cal
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quote:
My wife refers to me as a "jerk" on an almost daily basis... I feel so alone and like such a failure. I try to be the "priest of the home" but my wife is the boss of this house. She has to be in order for any semblance of peace...I want to ask my wife to please consider Christian marriage counseling for the sake of our marriage but I'm afraid she'll just say no.
(ChoirDJ grabs Sonrise by shoulders, looks Sonrise squarely in the eye with a firm but compassionate gaze, and gives Sonrise a few firm shakes by the shoulders to dewussify him). Sonrise, you need to get a backbone yesterday man. You are the leader of your family and your wife's disrespect is highly unnacceptable. You need to tell her in a firm way that you will not tolerate being treated like that by anybody (especially her) regardless of how wrong she may think you are at times. You need to tell her that you will not listen to her disrespect and you will remove yourself from her presence until she can get a hold of herself if she does it again. You need to let her know you will be available to hear her out as long as she approaches you with respect and you will expect to be listened to as well.
Women assume this kind of control because we let them but she will respect you a lot more and be more secure with leadership if you put her back in her place. I'm not talking about dictating or lording it over her but setting some firm boundaries regarding mutual respect. It will feel uncomfortable taking such a stand if your MO is to go wussy when the going gets tough. It will help you, your wife, and your daughter (who by the way is learning poor examples from both of you) in the long run. I guarantee you your is wouldn't dare to talk to any other male authority figure in her life like this if she were a halfway decent person. Now go and be the man your family needs and God has called you to be and post back on how it goes.
_____________________________
"Sin will take you further than you intended to go, keep you there longer than you intended to stay, and cost you more than you intended to spend." Got it?
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RE: In desperate need of a counselor ASAP - 6/19/2008 2:40:46 AM
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Hislittleone
Posts: 620
Joined: 7/13/2007
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quote:
You need to tell her in a firm way that you will not tolerate being treated like that by anybody (especially her) regardless of how wrong she may think you are at times. You need to tell her that you will not listen to her disrespect and you will remove yourself from her presence until she can get a hold of herself if she does it again. You need to let her know you will be available to hear her out as long as she approaches you with respect and you will expect to be listened to as well.
Women assume this kind of control because we let them but she will respect you a lot more and be more secure with leadership if you put her back in her place. I'm not talking about dictating or lording it over her but setting some firm boundaries regarding mutual respect. It will feel uncomfortable taking such a stand if your MO is to go wussy when the going gets tough. It will help you, your wife, and your daughter (who by the way is learning poor examples from both of you) in the long run. I guarantee you your is wouldn't dare to talk to any other male authority figure in her life like this if she were a halfway decent person.
I respectfully disagree.
Worrying about gaining back control is NOT a Christlike thing to do and husbands are commanded to love their wives like Christ loves the Church. Did Jesus worry about who was in control or who was the big boss? No. Jesus was humble, loving, merciful, gentle..... Jesus did NOT "put us back in our place". Jesus also listens to us no matter if we approach him with anger, hurt or disappointment etc. Jesus is not afraid of our negative emotions.
If my husband said those things to me I would completely lose respect for him.
On the contrary, a Christlike husband will lead BY EXAMPLE. He will put his wife's needs and desires above his own. He will lay aside pride and meet her needs. He will love her unconditionally. He will value and honor her not matter what......even if she calls him a jerk.
Your wife seems to be hurting or she wouldn't be saying these things to her husband. Other than the relational issues going on, have you considered that she may have post partum depression or could still be having problems with fluctuating hormones since she had a child recently (not to mention the lack of sleep from having such a young one around).
Do you have any idea why your wife is so unhappy with you? What reason does she give for wanting to leave?
Ken Nair says that the marriage relationship is a direct reflection of a man's relationship with God. Meaning that if the marriage relationship isn't going well then it more than likely means the husband is not being Christlike. His book Discovering the Mind of a Woman is a wonderful resource for husbands looking to grow in their walk with Christ and their relationship with their wife. He also offers phone counseling and weekend workshops that I highly recommend. My husband has read the book and is doing the phone counseling.
http://www.lifepartners.org/
Instead of asking your wife to go to counseling with you, I suggest you begin counseling with this ministry on your own. They counsel couples as well as individuals if she is willing to join you in the future. Begin by just reading the book. The principles it teaches are really making a huge difference in my marriage. I think it could really help to greatly improve your relationship.
On a side note, having a child that young out in the bright sunlight can be harmful because their skin is so tender. At that age they burn very easily. Then added to that is the eczema factor so it could have been a bad thing. Sounds like your wife went into protective mommy mode and maybe said something harsh that she didn't really mean.
< Message edited by Hislittleone -- 6/19/2008 2:52:30 AM >
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RE: In desperate need of a counselor ASAP - 6/19/2008 5:22:57 AM
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car2ner
Posts: 2758
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: just north of Florida
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this is why it is so hard to give advice online. We really don't know the whole story and I suspect there is some truth in both of what the above posters are suggesting.
Indeed, a good fact to face meeting with counsel is a good idea. I don't live close enough to S.C. to make a recommendation, sorry.
_____________________________
http://www.car2ner.2ya.com
"May your days be long and your hardships few".
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RE: In desperate need of a counselor ASAP - 6/19/2008 9:14:12 AM
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evryknee
Posts: 276
Joined: 3/9/2008
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I'd suggest you look in the yellow pages for a Christian counselor, www.aacc.net, www.findchristiancounselor.com, www.family.org, and/or call 1800-New-Life for counselors in your area. Also, ask your pastor, other pastors in the area for recommendations.
When interviewing prospective counselors, be sure to ask their view of marriage & divorce, see if their beliefs meet yours, Bible as inerrant, and how does one become saved. These questions are good starting points and they do not mind answering these questions.
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RE: In desperate need of a counselor ASAP - 6/19/2008 10:30:38 AM
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solarflare
Posts: 537
Status: offline
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quote:
Women assume this kind of control
I take exception - as a woman - men do this too. Control is not good in either sex. Your advice will only escalate the situation. Sorry
I think the advice by the next poster is closer to the approach you need to take. By the way, I don't think you are exhibiting 'wussy' behavior. I think you are frustrated and hurt and don't know what to do. Some men hit their wives in a situation like that.
Don't grab her by the shoulders - very bad advice - that could be considered physical threat - don't they offer some counselling services on this site?
< Message edited by solarflare -- 6/19/2008 10:42:39 AM >
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RE: In desperate need of a counselor ASAP - 6/19/2008 10:37:58 AM
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Conundrum
Posts: 100
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Calmly saying you won't listen to this kind of talk and leaving the room until she's finished is a good place to start. I disagree with the posters who say this is bad advice - I think it's good advice.
Human decency is not a male/female thing. It's a human thing. If she can't treat you decently, remove yourself from the situation until she's calmed down and can talk like a civilized human being. Be respectful yourself when you do it, but yes, do it.
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RE: In desperate need of a counselor ASAP - 6/19/2008 12:30:53 PM
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ChoirDJ
Posts: 473
Joined: 6/15/2006
From: So Cal
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One of the things I appreciate about this forum is the opportunity to learn from each other's perspectives and become better christians for it. You have to take in consideration that at least one woman stated she would be put off by the approach I mentioned. I do want to respond to some of the points made though.
Hislittleone...your post hints of some presumptions about that I think contributes to many troubled marriages. You seem to advocate that husbands should sit back and tolerate their wive's disrespectful attitudes and you seem to place the responsibility on the man to figure out what's the problem make things better. I agree with you that a man should be sensitive to other issues affecting his wife but the line has to be drawn somewhere. Is it okay for the man to come home from a hard day of work and take his frustration out on his wife who had nothing to do with that frustration? You say the husband should go to counseling and the husband should try to figure out what's going on with the wife to cause her to be unhappy but where's the wife's responsibility in all this? If you say that the way a husband treats his wife is a reflection of how he treats God does the principle not equally apply to wive who disrespect their husbands? In regards to control, I used the word "leadership" for a reason because you are right in that it's not about control. I distinguished between leadership and dictatorship in my previous post.
Lastly, I think your view of Jesus is incomplete when you say that he "would not put us back in our place". Have you not read how he responded to the Pharisees and the money changers in the temple? Jesus dealt with the situation according to what was needed. He was gentle when the situation called for it (most of the time) but he was also firm when He needed to be. I sorry but any woman who calls the man, she made vows before God to love, cherish, honor, respect, and obey, a jerk needs to be put back in her place and I would say the same thing if the husband were disrespecting the wife. It has no place in the marital relationship period!
quote:
If my husband said those things to me I would completely lose respect for him.
How would you feel if your husband decided to stop loving you when you were only trying to set some appropriate limits for his behavior? I wouldn't condone a wife disrespecting her husband anymore than I would condone a husband not loving his wife.
Solarflare...I think you misunderstood my comment regarding shaking as I would never advocate a man laying a hand on a woman for reasons other than self-defense. You may want to re-read that part of the post and it may make more sense.
I agree with car2ner that it's hard to give accurate advice on the limited information we have so you have to take everything you hear here with a grain of salt.
The general priniciple I was trying to make is that there has to be a mutual love and respect in order to have a healthy marriage. We are entitled to our feelings (however unpleasant they may be) but we are not entitled to act out on those feelings however way we choose.
_____________________________
"Sin will take you further than you intended to go, keep you there longer than you intended to stay, and cost you more than you intended to spend." Got it?
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RE: In desperate need of a counselor ASAP - 6/19/2008 1:18:19 PM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10857
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
Status: offline
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Saying a woman "NEEDS to be put back in her place" is dangerous ground, especially for someone on the outside of the relationship and having heard only one small part of one side of the story.
These folks NEED Christian counseling badly, not what they are hearing in some of these posts.
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: In desperate need of a counselor ASAP - 6/19/2008 1:50:37 PM
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futuremartyr
Posts: 138
Joined: 4/4/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sonrise
Hi,
I don't want to burden everyone with my sob story but my marriage is very bad. My wife refers to me as a "jerk" on an almost daily basis and tells me that if we didn't have our 7 month old daughter she would leave me. I pray for her every night and ask God to make me a better husband. I really try to put my wife before myself. One day I had my daughter with me outside for about 10 minutes and my wife called me a "bad parent" because she has mild ezcema and the sun is bad for her . This broke my heart as I would die for my little girl. I love the two women in my house with all of my heart but our marriage is awful. I try to read the Word and do married couples devotionals and the devotionals usually end up with my wife telling me what I'm doing wrong as per the lesson in the devotional which in turn leads to a fight.
I'm sorry to be speaking bad about my wife, I do try to honor her and bless her and she is an awesome mother and I tell her that every day. Our marriage is awful though. I feel so alone and like such a failure. I try to be the "priest of the home" but my wife is the boss of this house. She has to be in order for any semblance of peace.
We were in marriage counseling when we lived in Los Angeles and after each session she'd usually fume at me that if I "just did what I was supposed to we wouldn't be wasting $75/week on counseling". I told her that trying to heal our marriage isn't a waste. Divorce is not an option, God hates divorce and I love my daughter too much to have her be a part of a broken home. I want to ask my wife to please consider Christian marriage counseling for the sake of our marriage but I'm afraid she'll just say no. She often times tells me that she hates me. Keep in mind I'm not innocent by any stretch but I try and humble myself and forgive and ask for forgiveness.
Anyway, I apologize for doing what I said I wouldn't but I'm so alone and depressed. I don't know how go about finding a Godly counselor in our area. We live in Greenville, SC. If anyone can point me in the right direction, I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you.
1)My daughter has eczema and the doctor told us sun was good for it.
2)Is your wife on any meds?
3)http://store.familylife.com/conferences/find_conference.asp
Marriage conference info in North Carolina.
< Message edited by futuremartyr -- 6/19/2008 2:03:15 PM >
_____________________________
http://teachableheartsathome.blogspot.com/
http://store.familylife.com/conferences/find_conference.asp
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RE: In desperate need of a counselor ASAP - 6/19/2008 1:52:33 PM
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futuremartyr
Posts: 138
Joined: 4/4/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
Saying a woman "NEEDS to be put back in her place" is dangerous ground, especially for someone on the outside of the relationship and having heard only one small part of one side of the story.
These folks NEED Christian counseling badly, not what they are hearing in some of these posts.
VERY TRUE, there is always more than one side to a story.
_____________________________
http://teachableheartsathome.blogspot.com/
http://store.familylife.com/conferences/find_conference.asp
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RE: In desperate need of a counselor ASAP - 6/19/2008 2:00:06 PM
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ChoirDJ
Posts: 473
Joined: 6/15/2006
From: So Cal
Status: offline
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I agree stamper that some counseling would be in order since there's probably well-established problems that require professional intervention. I think we all realize that these message boards are nothing more than general opinions about how to deal with the OP's issue. Hopefully what's said here will be a springboard for the OP and his wife in deciding what they need most to improve their marriage.
A general comment about the choice of words "putting someone back in their place." I can understand how those words can be a bit incendiary given the history of this phrase so I am going to refrain from using this phrase in the future out of respect for the women here. What I mean to say is that God gives us roles in the marriage and when we step outside of those roles, we bring problems into our marriage. I hope that clears up any confusion because I am not at all meaning offend anyone hear.
_____________________________
"Sin will take you further than you intended to go, keep you there longer than you intended to stay, and cost you more than you intended to spend." Got it?
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RE: In desperate need of a counselor ASAP - 6/19/2008 2:13:16 PM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 1088
Joined: 6/4/2008
From: One of the coldest places on Earth
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
Saying a woman "NEEDS to be put back in her place" is dangerous ground, especially for someone on the outside of the relationship and having heard only one small part of one side of the story.
These folks NEED Christian counseling badly, not what they are hearing in some of these posts.
Agreed! Marriage counseling of some sort (not even necessarily "Christian" counseling, since I think this sort of issue goes beyond those bounds) is probably needed here.
I do agree, though, that the husband should CALMLY state to his wife that he shouldn't have to tolerate being spoken to in that manner. Nobody does. Especially in front of their child. It teaches disrespect for one's spouse.
Its one thing to tell your spouce that they're doing something with your child that they disagree with and to be more careful. To out right tell them that you hate them as Sonrise claims his is doing, or to blattenly call them a "bad parent" for making a simple mistake is unnecessary. He needs to take some kind of a stand for himself and his daughter, though not necessarily as strong as ChoirDJ.
Also, from what you're telling us, it sounds like your wife has a problem with needing to be in control all the time, and to demean you in the process to make sure she keeps that control. But it also sounds like she doesn't think she has a problem. You might need to go to counciling by yourself, first, for the benefit of getting someone else involved who can better tell you what the issues might be, and how you should proceed in getting your wife to seek treatment (if needs be).
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RE: In desperate need of a counselor ASAP - 6/19/2008 2:30:26 PM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10857
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
Status: offline
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quote:
Hopefully what's said here will be a springboard for the OP and his wife in deciding what they need most to improve their marriage. Agree.
quote:
You might need to go to counciling by yourself, first, for the benefit of getting someone else involved who can better tell you what the issues might be, and how you should proceed in getting your wife to seek treatment (if needs be). Agree again.
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: In desperate need of a counselor ASAP - 6/19/2008 3:12:35 PM
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In_Him_Grace
Posts: 21
Joined: 7/3/2007
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quote:
You are the leader of your family and your wife's disrespect is highly unnacceptable. You need to tell her in a firm way that you will not tolerate being treated like that by anybody (especially her) regardless of how wrong she may think you are at times. You need to tell her that you will not listen to her disrespect and you will remove yourself from her presence until she can get a hold of herself if she does it again. You need to let her know you will be available to hear her out as long as she approaches you with respect and you will expect to be listened to as well.
As a woman, I actually agree with this.
Some thing is definitely going on here -- whether it's postpartum depression or your wife is just an angry person. Is she a Christian? The behavior she is exhibiting certainly doesn't sound like a woman striving to be a godly wife and mother. I think you guys definitely need counseling.
While I agree that part of a husband's role as the leader is to lead by example, I also firmly believe that each person is responsible for his/her actions and personal walk with the Lord. I know quite a few women who are wonderful and strong godly women and are married to unbelievers. I'm sorry, but even if you were a jerk, I still don't believe that you are responsible for your wife's actions and behavior.
Have you actually talked to her about all this? And asked her why she's so angry and hurtful to you?
I'm so sorry about what you are going through. I hope that you are able to find some good counseling for you and your wife. Keep praying, brother.
May God be with you.
_____________________________
In Him,
Misti
I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified. -- 1 Corinthians 2:2
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RE: In desperate need of a counselor ASAP - 6/19/2008 3:26:12 PM
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deedeeowens
Posts: 38
Joined: 6/10/2008
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I know there must be a degree of frustration that your wife is dealing with, but name calling is definitely something she needs to take responsibility for. From what you've described she seems to get angry at you if you don't think and reason exactly the way that she would. I speak from experience because my husband's reasoning skills are WAY different than mine, and I used to get extremly angry with him and say things that I shouldn't have said. I received conviction from the Holy Spirit for this, and I have learned from it. I think your wife is in need of some guidance in how to deal with her frustration. Perhaps an older woman in the church would be able to counsel with her. I'll be praying that she will feel some conviction for her behavior, and that God will bring someone into her life to listen to her and give her good counsel. In the meantime, keep your gentle spirit. God made you that way for a reason and it's okay not to come off as Mr. Macho.
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RE: In desperate need of a counselor ASAP - 6/19/2008 4:04:07 PM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 1088
Joined: 6/4/2008
From: One of the coldest places on Earth
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deedeeowens
I know there must be a degree of frustration that your wife is dealing with, but name calling is definitely something she needs to take responsibility for. From what you've described she seems to get angry at you if you don't think and reason exactly the way that she would. I speak from experience because my husband's reasoning skills are WAY different than mine, and I used to get extremly angry with him and say things that I shouldn't have said. I received conviction from the Holy Spirit for this, and I have learned from it. I think your wife is in need of some guidance in how to deal with her frustration. Perhaps an older woman in the church would be able to counsel with her. I'll be praying that she will feel some conviction for her behavior, and that God will bring someone into her life to listen to her and give her good counsel. In the meantime, keep your gentle spirit. God made you that way for a reason and it's okay not to come off as Mr. Macho.
With all very due respect, I do think this is beyond just having an older mentor to help nudge her along. This sounds like something that will require more professional help.
I do agree, though, that you don't want to come across as being macho and bossy when standing up for yourself. This is about trying to help your wife learn to respect you more as a spouce; not house-train a puppy.
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RE: In desperate need of a counselor ASAP - 6/19/2008 5:11:10 PM
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ChoirDJ
Posts: 473
Joined: 6/15/2006
From: So Cal
Status: offline
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quote:
'women assume this kind of control' - 'cause I know several men that are absolute control freaks - and their wives really suffer for it.
Once again, I think my choice of words has betrayed me. I use the word "assume" in the context of taken on a responsibility or role because the person who should have done it didn't do it. To illustrate, lets suppose the coworker A is responsible for answering the phones at work while coworker B does other clerical tasks. Coworker A steps out of the office for a minute, the phone rings, and Coworker B does the favor of answering the phone. Coworker B has "assumed" the responsibility of Coworker A because Coworker A was not available at the time the phone rang and it needed to be answered.
Getting back to wives who take control of a marriage. Some do it because their husbands may be too passive to step up to the plate or for a myriad of other reasons (some acceptable, some not acceptable). Either way, it is not acceptable for the wife to assume this position in the relationship unless it is done in a collaborative way. For Example, wife takes over managing the finances because her husband and she agree she is more skilled in this area.
I know this is lengthy but hopefully it makes sense.
_____________________________
"Sin will take you further than you intended to go, keep you there longer than you intended to stay, and cost you more than you intended to spend." Got it?
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RE: In desperate need of a counselor ASAP - 6/19/2008 5:29:26 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 537
Status: offline
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Yeah, that's right - but how many husbands are passive and then go
"o my big bad wife is taking my place!!!" Just for the record, I am not
a controller - but I do have a strong personality - my dad always nurtured that in me - I don't think anyone should be 'controlled' - our poster sonrise has a difficult road ahead.
Women do not like to be told "Because I am the head of the house - that's why" - I'm not saying that YOU are saying that either.
Men are certainly not always right either - like you don't know that -
I completely think that Sonrises' wife is out of place - but something is really bugging the women and I don't think we have the whole story.
But, I always - always - will talk and listen - again, I get what you are saying - but I think there is stuff here we don't know about - so strange that everyone wants to play the role of counsellor - I guess we work out our own stuff when we respond (in some ways).
Anyhows, we are prob. kind of off topic here. Perhaps another thread? 
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RE: In desperate need of a counselor ASAP - 6/20/2008 2:20:53 AM
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Hislittleone
Posts: 620
Joined: 7/13/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
A general comment about the choice of words "putting someone back in their place." I can understand how those words can be a bit incendiary given the history of this phrase so I am going to refrain from using this phrase in the future out of respect for the women here. What I mean to say is that God gives us roles in the marriage and when we step outside of those roles, we bring problems into our marriage. I hope that clears up any confusion because I am not at all meaning offend anyone hear.
Thank you ChoirDJ. As a woman, I do find that phrase and the line of thinking it portrays to be very offensive. So I appreciate you clearing this up.
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RE: In desperate need of a counselor ASAP - 6/20/2008 11:06:01 AM
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ChoirDJ
Posts: 473
Joined: 6/15/2006
From: So Cal
Status: offline
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Hislittleone...I responded to your comments regarding my first post and I would be interested in your take if you would be so inclined to respond.
_____________________________
"Sin will take you further than you intended to go, keep you there longer than you intended to stay, and cost you more than you intended to spend." Got it?
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RE: In desperate need of a counselor ASAP - 6/20/2008 4:15:57 PM
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Hislittleone
Posts: 620
Joined: 7/13/2007
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Mods forgive me if this is off topic and belongs in the men/women's roles in marriage thread. I thought about moving the discussion there but I do believe it applies to the op’s situation. Please let me know if we need to take the discussion elsewhere.
ChoirDJ, since you asked for it here goes........ 
quote:
Hislittleone...your post hints of some presumptions about that I think contributes to many troubled marriages. You seem to advocate that husbands should sit back and tolerate their wive's disrespectful attitudes and you seem to place the responsibility on the man to figure out what's the problem make things better. I agree with you that a man should be sensitive to other issues affecting his wife but the line has to be drawn somewhere. Is it okay for the man to come home from a hard day of work and take his frustration out on his wife who had nothing to do with that frustration? You say the husband should go to counseling and the husband should try to figure out what's going on with the wife to cause her to be unhappy but where's the wife's responsibility in all this? If you say that the way a husband treats his wife is a reflection of how he treats God does the principle not equally apply to wive who disrespect their husbands? In regards to control, I used the word "leadership" for a reason because you are right in that it's not about control. I distinguished between leadership and dictatorship in my previous post.
I do believe that every person (man or woman) is responsible for their actions. But in a marriage relationship I believe that the husband has a greater responsibility (for the state of that union) than the wife. It sounds unfair but it actually works very well and I believe it's because God designed it that way. IMO, men are created to be initiators (leaders) and the wife will naturally respond. If the man initiates positive actions, the wife will respond positively. I'm talking about a marriage where both people are Christians. There are some exceptions to this meaning that there are (I think) some instances where the wife won't respond positively.
My husband and I are living this out in our marriage. It has worked better than years of counseling. We are now (after many years of an on again/ off again rocky relationship) having a more wonderful marriage than we dreamed possible.
I believe that women have been terribly hurt and abused for centuries by the attitude of control that the "put her back in her place" phrase indicates. A man who is concerned with "putting his wife back in her place" and maintaining his "rightful" place as the "leader" in the relationship is not as concerned with following Christ as he is with feeding his own pride and sense of entitlement.
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Lastly, I think your view of Jesus is incomplete when you say that he "would not put us back in our place". Have you not read how he responded to the Pharisees and the money changers in the temple? Jesus dealt with the situation according to what was needed. He was gentle when the situation called for it (most of the time) but he was also firm when He needed to be. I sorry but any woman who calls the man, she made vows before God to love, cherish, honor, respect, and obey, a jerk needs to be put back in her place and I would say the same thing if the husband were disrespecting the wife. It has no place in the marital relationship period!
I would like to point out that, while calling a person a jerk (or any other name) is not nice and we shouldn’t do it, the fact that this woman is doing this indicates that she has a problem with her husband. Very likely he has done something(s) that have hurt her deeply. We only have his side of the story here and he admittedly hasn’t been a perfect husband. So, I’d like to give his wife the benefit of the doubt until /unless the op returns and gives more info to the contrary.
I do agree that God does discipline His children, at times being firm with them. But let me share my thoughts on the following Scriptures.
Ephesians 5: 21Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.
Wives and Husbands
22Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.
25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church— 30for we are members of his body. 31"For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." 32This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.
In this passage we see that husbands have been instructed to love and give themselves up for their wives just as Christ did for the Church. At the very top of the passage all believers are instructed to submit to one another (not just wives to husbands). And lastly wives are instructed to respect their husbands. I believe that this is a responsive respect. I.e. when a husband is loving his wife like he’s instructed to here, the wife is created by God to naturally (with hardly any effort) respond with respect.
Colossians 3: 19Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them.
To me, if a husband has the attitude that he’s going to “put a wife back in her place” it’s an attitude of harshness.
Colossians 3: 12Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. 13Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. 14And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity
1 Peter 3: 7Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers.
Wow, this verse tells us that a husband who doesn’t live with his wife in a considerate way will have his prayers hindered. That’s pretty serious. I’ve seen it happen in my husband’s life. Also, as I understand it “weaker” means delicate (picture fine china).
Suffering for Doing Good
8Finally, all of you, live in harmony with one another; be sympathetic, love as brothers, be compassionate and humble. 9Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult, but with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing.----highlight added
This really stood out to me regarding the op’s situation with his wife. So to return insult (being called a jerk) with a blessing does not indicate weakness on his part but great strength and Christlikeness. It takes more strength to do this than to respond in a harsh way, demanding respect and trying to put her back in her place. Responding in harshness and making sure we are getting what we perceive as “rightfully” ours is the natural human response. But as believers we have the power to overcome our sinful, selfish nature.
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Hislittleone: “If my husband said those things to me I would completely lose respect for him.”
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ChoirDJ: “How would you feel if your husband decided to stop loving you when you were only trying to set some appropriate limits for his behavior? I wouldn't condone a wife disrespecting her husband anymore than I would condone a husband not loving his wife.”
In my experience, whenever I’ve needed to set limits for my husband’s behavior it was because he wasn’t loving me as he should in the first place. When he is loving me as Christ loved the Church then I don’t have a need to set boundaries. When he fails and I do end up having to set boundaries (PTL this happens seldomly now) then in striving to be the Christlike husband that he is, he readily and willingly accepts the boundaries and apologizes for his behavior
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ChoirDJ: “If you say that the way a husband treats his wife is a reflection of how he treats God does the principle not equally apply to wive who disrespect their husbands?”
I said that it’s a reflection of his relationship with God, not how he treats God. It indicates what state his walk with God is in.
All Scripture is from Biblegateway.com
< Message edited by Hislittleone -- 6/20/2008 4:22:08 PM >
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RE: In desperate need of a counselor ASAP - 6/20/2008 5:31:14 PM
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ChoirDJ
Posts: 473
Joined: 6/15/2006
From: So Cal
Status: offline
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Thanks for responding and I actually agree with pretty much everything you said. Once again, I think my choice of words and phrases in some cases did not accurately convey the points I was trying to make. I do agree that men bear greater responsibility before God on what's happening in the relationship but I also believe their are a lot of wives out there that blame almost everything on their poor husbands. I think there are a lot of wives that use very strong language with their husbands because of the presumption men are not capable of feeling pain to the same degree women do.
Incidently, I was talking with a female coworker the other day about the difference between how men and women express their feelings. She was under the presumption men don't feel pain to the extent that women do because most men hardly cry. I explained that I believe men are very much capable of having the same degree of emotional pain as women do. We don't always show it outwardly because we have been socialized (at least in mainstream America) that a show of emotions is weak. Hence the terms "Be a Man", "take it like a man" and such. Where the OP's wife falls in all this is something that has to be discerned with some professional help. I will also be the first to acknowledge that we men can sometimes be insensitive derelicts when it comes to relating to the opposite sex.
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It takes more strength to do this than to respond in a harsh way, demanding respect and trying to put her back in her place. Responding in harshness and making sure we are getting what we perceive as “rightfully” ours is the natural human response. But as believers we have the power to overcome our sinful, selfish nature.
Once again, I am not advocating any form of harshness in how the OP deals with his wife's disrespect. That would be the dictatorship approach. I was addressing the OP's comment that his wife usurped his role in the relationship (and we have to acknowledge many women do this for one reason or another and it's extremely hurtful for the man when this happens). I guess in essence I'm | | |
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