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RE: James Dobson on Obama - 6/28/2008 12:37:36 AM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3425
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I doubt most people would not use a coat hanger. That sounds painful, but if they did and had pain well, so do the babies having brains sucked out. Look, I know young girls can be confused, and do things that I know they will regret, all their lives. Womem are numb for awhile, then quilt comes as they see a child that would have been their childs age. The they marry have children, and cannot even imagine that they could love a child so much. Then Grief and depression come like a flood. It is something women never get over, and know they have murdered. It is bad all the way around. This is why I am against pro-choice. The choice to murder, and the choice of living a life with blood on their hands.
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
I would argue that if Roe is overturned, you'll see these numbers (12 years out of date) go much higher. But then again, as these abortions would be performed underground, there would be no way to get an accurate count.
Ah, the ole "Coat hanger" defense.
Since the babies might be murdered anyway, then lets keep the murder legal and easy.
Nonsense.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: James Dobson on Obama - 6/28/2008 2:43:12 AM
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wing2000
Posts: 979
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Excellent analysis Julius.
quote:
What I believe Obama was saying is that if we want a political solution to our problems, then we must play by the rules of politics. In the political arena of the United States of America, the interests of ALL people must be taken into consideration, and not just those of Christians. That’s the rules. Before someone brings this up, no, the unborn don’t have a vote. We may not like those rules, but those are the rules in our gubment. If we want to get something done in a particular arena, we have to play by the rules whether we like them or not, or get them changed or choose another arena to do our fighting. An arena with which we are more familiar and can pick our own rules. I’ll get back to that later. Nehemiah realized this when he went to a pagan king to seek authorization to go to Jerusalem to rebuild the walls. Martin Luther King had to play by the rules when he sought civil rights legislation. So, if we want something done, and politics is the only way to get it done, we need to play by the rules of politics.
Obama further went on to say that we don’t have to check our Christianity at the door before entering the political arena. "There is much validity to the concerns of many on the "religious right."............Sadly, on some occasions, some of their spokesmen present their views that are unnecessarily narrow and seemingly hostile to those outside the group. I emphasize the word "unnecessarily." Just as we speak differently to our families and to the public, conservative Christians need to appeal to the general moral conscience of most Americans. This does not mean compromising their principles, which the majority of Americans doubtless share. It means only to recognize that in public discourse one of the priorities is to persuade those who don't share your views, and not simply to speak to those with whom you have an affinity." Obama didn't say this, nor did a liberal. It was former Reagan Education Secretary and conservative commentator William Bennett.
Therefore, part of playing the political game is to persuade people. And to do this takes time, talent, and patience, not all of us have that. When Paul addressed the Greek scholars at Mars Hill in Acts 17:16-34, he addressed them with boldness, but with respect. It’s a common temptation for Christians to simply “pick sides” and treat those on the other side as the “enemy.” We, as Christians, must remember this as we engage the nonbeliever.
Paul draws on imagery with which his audience is familiar with and speaks to them in language they can relate to and understand. All truth is God’s truth; therefore wherever truth is found in a culture, its source is ultimately the God of the Bible. It is the challenge of the Christian – not the government - to demonstrate this to the nonbeliever.
It is worth noting that Paul did not chase after those who left, offering to tone down his rhetoric so that his message might be more palatable and gain a wider acceptance. Nor did he choose to get louder, brasher and more hostile toward them. The text indicates that as soon as he was done preaching, Paul left them. He had done his part; he had preached the Word. The audience’s response was left to themselves and the Holy Spirit. Hardened hearts will scoff, searching hearts will ponder, and believing hearts will be saved. We find later on in scripture that a few of those Greeks Paul addressed were indeed converted.
So, for example, for those who are pro-life, is your priority seeing that more people choose life, regardless of what the law of this country says, which requires a little persuasion, or is your priority simply getting Roe v. Wade overturned, which requires pretty much nothing on your part and people can still go to other countries where abortion is still legal? Or, are you just "picking sides". So far, how effective have you been in accomplishing your goal?
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Obama on abortion - 6/28/2008 11:38:59 AM
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Evangel70
Posts: 425
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Barack Obama: We can find common ground between pro-choice and pro-life
Q: The terms pro-choice and pro-life, do they encapsulate that reality in our 21st Century setting and can we find common ground?
A: I absolutely think we can find common ground. And it requires a couple of things. It requires us to acknowledge that..
There is a moral dimension to abortion, which I think that all too often those of us who are pro-choice have not talked about or tried to tamp down. I think that's a mistake because I think all of us understand that it is a wrenching choice for anybody to think about. People of good will can exist on both sides. That nobody wishes to be placed in a circumstance where they are even confronted with the choice of abortion. How we determine what's right at that moment, I think, people of good will can differ.
And if we can acknowledge that much, then we can certainly agree on the fact that we should be doing everything we can to avoid unwanted pregnancies that might even lead somebody to consider having an abortion.
Q: Do you personally believe that life begins at conception?
A: This is something that I have not come to a firm resolution on. I think it's very hard to know what that means, when life begins. Is it when a cell separates? Is it when the soul stirs? So I don't presume to know the answer to that question. What I know is that there is something extraordinarily powerful about potential life and that that has a moral weight to it that we take into consideration when we're having these debates.
Barack Obama: Teach teens about abstinence and also about contraception
We've actually made progress over the last several years in reducing teen pregnancies, for example. And what I have consistently talked about is to take a comprehensive approach where we focus on abstinence, where we are teaching the sacredness of sexuality to our children. But we also recognize the importance of good medical care for women, that we're also recognizing the importance of age-appropriate education to reduce risks. I do believe that contraception has to be part of that education process.
And if we do those things, then I think that we can reduce abortions and I think we should make sure that adoption is an option for people out there. If we put all of those things in place, then I think we will take some of the edge off the debate.
We're not going to completely resolve it. At some point, there may just be an irreconcilable difference. And those who are opposed to abortion, I think, should continue to be able to lawfully object and try to change the laws.
Source: 2008 Democratic Compassion Forum at Messiah College Apr 13, 2008
Link
_____________________________
May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you a spirit of unity among yourselves as you follow Christ Jesus, so that with one heart and mouth you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
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RE: James Dobson on Obama - 6/28/2008 2:14:01 PM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1617
Joined: 3/30/2008
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quote:
quote:
Can we please have just 5 stop threads on abortion?
There's 2 for racism, so would 5 be enough?
Sheesh!!!!
Don't you know, Tracy? EVERY thread on Crosswalk is potentially an abortion thread. Some of those guys, I believe, think it's their Christian duty to hijack every thread so they can bring our focus back on what they feel is the ONLY issue we should EVER be concerned with.
- Julius
***sign*** I think I learned with Jimmy Swaggart(remember him?) that if someone always wants you to look one way, ask why? What are they hiding?? Just too many hypocrites in the Church, I don't think anyone listens anymore.
I just for the life of me can't figure out how abortion has lasted this long with ALL of us being pro-life- or rather against abortion.
What trips me out is we love the constitution, with it's freedom of religion.
Bo says the same thing and WHAT-He's not a .......
I'm glad I'm free from the "religion" of James Dobson and his homeboys.
Juluis,
I too have become a defender of BO. Will never vote for him but....
If they got the right to be jerks, so does he!
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: America as a Theocracy - 6/28/2008 2:20:30 PM
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solo_soprano22
Posts: 2289
Joined: 4/27/2005
From: I'm a Southern girl
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quote:
ORIGINAL: saved9201
quote:
Can we please have just 5 stop threads on abortion?
There's 2 for racism, so would 5 be enough?
Sheesh!!!!
Don't you know, Tracy? EVERY thread on Crosswalk is potentially an abortion thread. Some of those guys, I believe, think it's their Christian duty to hijack every thread so they can bring our focus back on what they feel is the ONLY issue we should EVER be concerned with.
- Julius
Julius, that certainly is the truth (here)!
_____________________________
For God, For Learning, Forever.
"Sometimes I Wonder Why" (Blog entry)
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RE: James Dobson on Obama - 6/28/2008 2:38:47 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5041
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
***sign*** I think I learned with Jimmy Swaggart(remember him?) that if someone always wants you to look one way, ask why? What are they hiding?? Just too many hypocrites in the Church, I don't think anyone listens anymore.
Do you mean the Jimmy Swaggart that stumbled and sinned, ask forgiveness and most folks refused to even consider forgiveness, but just condemned; that Jimmy Swaggart?
Thsnks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: America as a Theocracy - 6/28/2008 2:44:06 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5041
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: saved9201
Don't you know, Tracy? EVERY thread on Crosswalk is potentially an abortion thread. Some of those guys, I believe, think it's their Christian duty to hijack every thread so they can bring our focus back on what they feel is the ONLY issue we should EVER be concerned with.
Well shucks Julius, if someone suppors and promotes the killing of babies, especially by sucking the brains out of the head while the rest of the babies body is kicking and trying to get past the cervix as Obama does; just what else is there to consider.
Tax reform pales in comparison to murdering babies.
Iraq surrender policy pales in comparison to murdering babies.
Change (whaterver that is?) pales in comparison to murdering babies.
Etc. etc. etc.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: James Dobson on Obama - 6/28/2008 5:49:16 PM
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TaoPoohBear
Posts: 317
Joined: 1/18/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
***sign*** I think I learned with Jimmy Swaggart(remember him?) that if someone always wants you to look one way, ask why? What are they hiding?? Just too many hypocrites in the Church, I don't think anyone listens anymore.
Do you mean the Jimmy Swaggart that stumbled and sinned, ask forgiveness and most folks refused to even consider forgiveness, but just condemned; that Jimmy Swaggart?
Thsnks
RC
That would be the first time.
I believe he had a different attitude about it the second time -
quote:
The maxim "Once burned, twice shy" apparently doesn't mean much to televangelist Jimmy Swaggart. Disgraced in 1988 after a liaison with a Louisiana call girl, Swaggart, 56, was stopped by police in Indio, Calif., two weeks ago for a traffic violation and found to be in the company of Rosemary Garcia, an admitted streetwalker. That latest foray prompted Swaggart to resign from his Baton Rouge-based ministry last Tuesday to seek "professional counseling and medical care." But the next day the preacher reversed the decision, explaining to his congregation that God told him to return to the pulpit. Swaggart announced to supporters that "the Lord told me it's flat none of your business" and that he didn't have to apologize for his conduct. Time/CNN
< Message edited by TaoPoohBear -- 6/28/2008 6:01:03 PM >
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RE: America as a Theocracy - 6/28/2008 9:15:29 PM
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TaoPoohBear
Posts: 317
Joined: 1/18/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: saved9201
Don't you know, Tracy? EVERY thread on Crosswalk is potentially an abortion thread. Some of those guys, I believe, think it's their Christian duty to hijack every thread so they can bring our focus back on what they feel is the ONLY issue we should EVER be concerned with.
Well shucks Julius, if someone suppors and promotes the killing of babies, especially by sucking the brains out of the head while the rest of the babies body is kicking and trying to get past the cervix as Obama does; just what else is there to consider.
Tax reform pales in comparison to murdering babies.
Iraq surrender policy pales in comparison to murdering babies.
Change (whaterver that is?) pales in comparison to murdering babies.
Etc. etc. etc.
Thanks
RC
I don't understand why the Right to Life movement keeps yelling stop but never offers any solutions.
Is this quote really true?!
- Nancy Keenan, president of NARAL Pro-Choice America, says the Right to Life organization doesn’t advertise a birth-control position. “But you find in that movement—and they’ve become much more assertive about it—if you use birth control, you are stopping a life and that’s not acceptable,” she says. Listen to right-wing talk radio and you’ll hear how making birth control available or teaching sex-ed in public schools leads to sex. That’s an argument equivalent to believing that putting air bags in cars causes accidents."
That's just plain nuts, don't you folks know the facts?!
quote:
Modern contraceptives use increased in Russia by 74 percent, while the abortion rate declined by 61 percent between 1988 and 2001. Prior to 1988, contraception was difficult to obtain. As a result, most women relied on abortion as a primary means of regulating their fertility.
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Increased use of contraception has been accompanied by significant declines in abortion rates in a number of countries, including Bangladesh, Bulgaria, Chile, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Romania, Russia and Turkey.
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Abortion rates declined in the 1990s in tandem with a rise in use of modern contraception in the republics of Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan. In Kazakhstan, contraceptive prevalence increased by 50 percent in the 1990s, and abortion rates decreased by nearly the same amount.
In the Czech Republic, abortion rates have fallen from an annual rate of about 116,000 in the late 1980s to 27,600 today. Many credit the increased availability of contraceptives with this decline. Since the 1980s, the percentage of Czech women using birth control pills has quadrupled.
This (was) a discussion about Dobson & his Family Research council. Why are they against contraceptives? (why are you, rcjames?)
11/12/2007 Senator Obama said, “We must do more to help low-income women and college students access affordable contraceptive drugs. No woman should be turned away from university clinics and health centers because the cost of prescription drugs is out of reach. Access to contraceptives is essential to lowering the rate of unintended pregnancies in this country, and we need to make sure these drugs are affordable and accessible."
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RE: America as a Theocracy - 6/28/2008 9:24:44 PM
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saved9201
Posts: 715
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: saved9201
Don't you know, Tracy? EVERY thread on Crosswalk is potentially an abortion thread. Some of those guys, I believe, think it's their Christian duty to hijack every thread so they can bring our focus back on what they feel is the ONLY issue we should EVER be concerned with.
Well shucks Julius, if someone suppors and promotes the killing of babies, especially by sucking the brains out of the head while the rest of the babies body is kicking and trying to get past the cervix as Obama does; just what else is there to consider.
Tax reform pales in comparison to murdering babies.
Iraq surrender policy pales in comparison to murdering babies.
Change (whaterver that is?) pales in comparison to murdering babies.
Etc. etc. etc.
Thanks
RC
I rest my case.
- Julius
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RE: America as a Theocracy - 6/29/2008 1:21:16 AM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1617
Joined: 3/30/2008
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quote:
They aren't actually. As far as I know, Dobson and most other evangelicals wholeheartedly support contraception...within marriage.
That would be great if they could stay within their OWN marriages! Ted Haggard? And just too many to list. See the problem with me at least is that I see"the Christian Right" alot in my 'hood.
Coming to get prostitutes.
They don't bother to take off their wedding rings, and lunchtime around here has always been busy!
People here don't listen because they know what hypocrites they are.
You can find that in any urban area, there's always a segment of the 'hood that accepts them no problem!
Their money is green and it spends. And they always got lots of it!
Seems kinda backwards to me, that philsophy.
Mariage is where kids should be born into.
Birth control should be for people like prostitutes, junkies, etc.
I have a cousin that is a drug user, she has 9 that have been taken by the state. Never to know who their mother is or even who their siblings are.
That poor child should have birth control! She had her last one in the dope house.
Married women should have it but not her?
I beg to differ.
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: America as a Theocracy - 6/29/2008 4:03:57 AM
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TaoPoohBear
Posts: 317
Joined: 1/18/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
quote:
This (was) a discussion about Dobson & his Family Research council. Why are they against contraceptives? (why are you, rcjames?)
They aren't actually. As far as I know, Dobson and most other evangelicals wholeheartedly support contraception...within marriage.
They just don't believe passing out free contraception will do much at all to stem the tide of "unwanted" children and STDs. All contraception has a failure rate. Contraception lends a false sense of security against pregnancy and disease. Contraception passed out on a large scale to all and sundry as "sure fire" protection encourages the very behaviours that result in unplanned pregnancies and disease.
Then they do so tacitly, and that would be a generous reading of their web site.
The only thing I found was this -
quote:
FRC is opposed to the availability of the morning after pill (or Plan B) and other hormonal drugs over the counter without a prescription. Hormonal medications require the oversight of a physician or medical provider throughout the duration of drug usage, in order to screen for the existence or the subsequent development of contraindications.
And they have used the phrase "condom culture" to describe immoral behavior.
That leaves us with diaphragms, IUDs, the rhythm/temperature method & coitus interruptus. Didn't see any of that info on their site.
This whole thread started out about Obama saying (among other things) in a speech - "those who cynically use religion to justify partisan ends." Was he wrong?
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RE: America as a Theocracy - 6/29/2008 6:52:42 AM
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saved9201
Posts: 715
Joined: 4/15/2005
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The tendency of the right to pounce on, dissect, and find fault with every syllable ever spoken by Obama could end up backfiring. Dobson was criticizing a 2006 speech which most people, no doubt, never heard. Now, thanks to Dobson, many people have heard or read it, and it shows that at least, Obama has a basic, albeit flawed understanding of Christianity, and he's willing to "put himself out there" and enter the debate, rather than avoid it altogether, like his opponent, John McCain. While Dobson criticizes Obama, the closet Muslim, of not understanding Old Testament theology and how Mosaic Law does or does not apply today, McCain gets away with saying he finds no need to get baptized and that one can be a Christian without being "born again." On the other hand, Obama, who has professed as having accepted Christ, because he was led to the Lord by the wrong guy, baptized in the wrong church, and a member of the wrong political party, his salvation is questioned and he lacks any credibility to speak to issues involving biblical Christianity.
That is, he lacks credibility from those who never had any intention of voting for him in the first place.
On the other hand, how much credibility do you think Dobson has with those outside the evangelical Christian community? I mean, really?
So all this has done, is given the Obama camp another "free" opportunity to highlight the man's "brilliance" (I say that sarcastically, although I still think he did make a few good points), while McCain, struggling to get people to notice him, is 15 points behind in the polls.
- Julius
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RE: James Dobson on Obama - 6/29/2008 8:36:38 AM
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saved9201
Posts: 715
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
quote:
So, for example, for those who are pro-life, is your priority seeing that more people choose life, regardless of what the law of this country says, which requires a little persuasion, or is your priority simply getting Roe v. Wade overturned, which requires pretty much nothing on your part and people can still go to other countries where abortion is still legal?
Actually, for me and most, it's the first.
I don't see that Obama has any interest whatsoever in persuading anyone against abortion. He claims it's not his moral right to tell anyone that it's wrong. 
Did you actually read the entire speech in question? I don't think you, many of the folks responding here, or Dr. Dobson actually did. You hear, "Obama said..." and immediately start attacking. Here's the link if you're interested.
On abortion:
"I may be opposed to abortion for religious reasons, but if I seek to pass a law banning the practice, I cannot simply point to the teachings of my church or evoke God's will. I have to explain why abortion violates some principle that is accessible to people of all faiths, including those with no faith at all."
What's wrong with that?
Similarly, Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas was asked once how he reconciled being against Affirmative Action, which he benefited from when he went to college. He replied that the rulings of a Supreme Court Justice on a policy are not to be based on whether or not they benefited from that policy, but on whether it or not that policy is constitutional, which he believes Affirmative Action is not.
Which brings up the point that, don't assume that when you get McCain in the White House, that he's automatically going to appoint conservative Christian judges and they will automatically vote to overturn Roe v. Wade. As Obama stated, that Justice may be against abortion for religious reasons, but they must still prove their case from a constitutional basis. And if the justice has a "fruitcake" interpretation of the constitution, as Dobson says, Roe v. Wade will remain the law of the land.
- Julius
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RE: America as a Theocracy - 6/29/2008 10:55:03 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 5041
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TaoPoohBear
I don't understand why the Right to Life movement keeps yelling stop but never offers any solutions.
Sure we do, free pregnancy testing cneters, homes for pregnant singles who need the help, adoption by good moral families, teachinf that the only way not to get pregnant is to keep your pants zipped up (also great for STDs), etc. etc.
It is just the kind of help that the abortion mills (planned parenthood included) do not want to hear because it cuts into their bottom line.
Murdering a child is murdiering a child and I will vote for no one who supports that murder.
Thsnks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: James Dobson on Obama - 6/29/2008 11:00:48 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 5041
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: saved9201
On abortion:
"I may be opposed to abortion for religious reasons, but if I seek to pass a law banning the practice, I cannot simply point to the teachings of my church or evoke God's will. I have to explain why abortion violates some principle that is accessible to people of all faiths, including those with no faith at all."
What's wrong with that?
This same reasoning should then be applied to "Honor killing" performed by Muslim families when their daughters do something wrong.
Since those Muslims families think it is OK, then we should all think it is OK, and ammend our law to not include "Honor killing" in the murder statutes.
Mudering a child, even a preborn child, is murder. Partial birth abortion whin Obama supports is murder in the most gruesome manner.
Thsnks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: James Dobson on Obama - 6/29/2008 11:06:58 AM
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lpt
Posts: 153
Joined: 6/8/2006
From: Colorado Springs
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: hnt
quote:
ORIGINAL: lpt
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: ElmerFishpaw
It's beyond me why Obama would want to meet with a nut like Dobson.
Dr. Irrelevant would live the pub he'd get by meeting with Obummer. After all, he's met with the likes of Dr. laura and Ted Bundy, LOL
The hatred for a godly Christian man whose life has been committed to the family is stunning....
What are you talking about?
Disagreement with someone like Dobson doesn't mean hatred. I mean there is a difference.
Calling Dr. Dobson a "nut" and "Dr. Irrelevant" is not mere "disagreement with his positions. It betrays a predisposition of hatred toward this fine Christian man.
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RE: James Dobson on Obama - 6/29/2008 11:42:35 AM
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ElmerFishpaw
Posts: 140
Joined: 7/18/2007
Status: offline
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If I hated Dobson, then I would come out and say I hate him. I said he was a nut. I think he's nuts. My aunt is nuts. I don't hate my aunt. People here say worse about B Obama, and I'm sure would claim not to hate him of course.... "love the sinner and hate the sin" Whatever that's supposed to mean. Dobson at least stands for his beliefs. I can respect him for that. Even if I disagree with what he says and the way his actions.
quote:
ORIGINAL: lpt
quote:
ORIGINAL: hnt
quote:
ORIGINAL: lpt
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: ElmerFishpaw
It's beyond me why Obama would want to meet with a nut like Dobson.
Dr. Irrelevant would live the pub he'd get by meeting with Obummer. After all, he's met with the likes of Dr. laura and Ted Bundy, LOL
The hatred for a godly Christian man whose life has been committed to the family is stunning....
What are you talking about?
Disagreement with someone like Dobson doesn't mean hatred. I mean there is a difference.
Calling Dr. Dobson a "nut" and "Dr. Irrelevant" is not mere "disagreement with his positions. It betrays a predisposition of hatred toward this fine Christian man.
_____________________________
"Aurora Borealis is Latin for flying saucer headlights"
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RE: James Dobson on Obama - 6/29/2008 1:41:03 PM
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solo_soprano22
Posts: 2289
Joined: 4/27/2005
From: I'm a Southern girl
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: saved9201
On abortion:
"I may be opposed to abortion for religious reasons, but if I seek to pass a law banning the practice, I cannot simply point to the teachings of my church or evoke God's will. I have to explain why abortion violates some principle that is accessible to people of all faiths, including those with no faith at all."
What's wrong with that?
- Julius
Julius, I have said something similar in the abortion thread. I said to those who are completely against abortion that a problem is that not all people believe it is wrong or murder either, but citing this is what I think or this is what I think God thinks won't work on everyone. And I think it might be rough, because not all real Christians (or "religious" people) believe the conception theory, which means not even all of them are opposed to abortion up to some point in development (some are unsure when life begins so don't believe in abortion because they don't know for sure, but have their opinions), and that includes pastors, not just people in the congregation. Most, if not all, I run into do oppose it when it's partial birth abortion. Anyway, there's already a thread on that for debate and such, but I can see why Obama said that.... I think it would be a good starting point to tell people why it is wrong and to get all the Christians to agree on the issue. Not everyone believes it is wrong/murder, and that includes some Christians and religious people. I'd think it's mighty rough to get the outside (non-Christian/not religious)to your mindset when the inside (churches/Christians) is divided on the issue itself.
< Message edited by solo_soprano22 -- 6/29/2008 2:02:06 PM >
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"Sometimes I Wonder Why" (Blog entry)
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During the 2000 election I heard some radio personalities saying that too many christians are now voting for what is best for them instead of what is right in Gods eyes.
