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RE: Fish, fish, stupid fish (the kind in tanks) - 6/26/2008 7:59:10 PM
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stellaluna
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I taught a goldfish to swim through a hoop. That was pretty cool. The fish my mom killed with the chocolate was a favorite pet of hers for several years. She cried for days when he died. They will learn to recognize you and come to the glass when you get near.
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RE: Fish, fish, stupid fish (the kind in tanks) - 6/26/2008 8:31:53 PM
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pumpkin
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I had a goldfish that when he was hungry, he would swim near to his food (I kept it just outside the tank, so that it was always handy) and just keep tapping the glass until I fed him. He was something else though too. I HAD to keep a lid on the tank, and even with the lid, he would swim down to the bottom of the tank, and then swim hard toward the top, and "bump" the lid when he wanted attention. Also, no matter how I wanted his tank "decorated" he always rearranged.
That particular gold fish lived about 8 years. That is not normal for goldfish, from what I'm told, but he was a good goldfish. He lived through travelling to and from college with me, every semester he would be in the tank with about a 1/4 full tank, on the floor of the car, and he would travel well. I've never heard of any others doing well with half the stuff that my poor little fish went through. =)
I also did not follow the advice listed here to never ever empty the tank. I somewhat frequently emptied the tank, put him in a glass bowl (with a plate on top of it, or he'd jump out) and would scrub the tank. I wanted it clean clean clean. He loved it.
He was quite a character.
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RE: Fish, fish, stupid fish (the kind in tanks) - 6/26/2008 8:48:51 PM
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Ps103
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Okay--did your MIL just fill up the tank and dump 8 fish in it?
That is a recipe for disaster, right there.
For one thing, eight fish of that size is too big of a biological load for a 10g. tank.
For another thing, the tank needs to cycle before anything but the hardiest (and disposable) of fish are added.
I am not real clear on fresh water fish (prefer marine--and not fish, but corals), but regardless, the tank will go through a nitrogen cycle and that is probably what offed the fish. Basically, whne there are living things in a tank of water, the fish poop and decaying uneaten food create ammonia. After time, nitrites will form to consume the ammonia. Both ammonia and nitrites are toxic to fish. After four weeks or so (there are things ou nca add to speed this along) nitrates develop, and the are not harmful to the fish, and consume the toxic nitrites.
Without regular tank maintnence, the ammonia will overwhelm the ability of the nitrites and nitrates to consume it, and start the cycle over. This is especially true when the biological load is more than the tank can stand--I think the eight fish in a 10 g. probably never had a chance. That is why you do weekly water changes of about ten percent--to maintain the equilibrium. 10 gallons is a very small enviornment and is not real stable, so you need to test the water frequently to make sure it is okay.
I would scrap the 10 g. tank and get a 1 g. container and put a betta in it. They breathe air, so they are not as sensitive to water parameters. Just fish him out in a cup once a week (but cover the cup as the are jumpers), then fill the container with water. If our well water isn't chlorinated, you don't need to worry about additives--just set it out for a few hours to adjust the temperature.
They eat little pellets, and a pack of pellets will last a long time. (Despite the peace lily
Do not put more than one betta in a container, though--they will fight to the death. Even if one is a female, you cannpt kep a male with *anything.* (You can keep more than one female--but they aren't as pretty.) Around here a betta is about $2.50. Food is about 3$, and lasts a looong time
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RE: Fish, fish, stupid fish (the kind in tanks) - 6/26/2008 8:52:28 PM
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zoebob
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Betas might not be good for Donna. They need o be kept at at least 68 or something like that. My girls got one for easter and it lasted until winter when our house got colder than that. We got a new one and it died in a week or something.
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RE: Fish, fish, stupid fish (the kind in tanks) - 6/26/2008 9:05:32 PM
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Ps103
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Put the betta under a table lamp if it gets too cold. The are coldwater fish, and I have never had a problem with them as far as temperature was concerned.
The biggest problem with bettas is that the ship them in wet newspaper, so when the get to the store the are so stressed they ar not real healthy when you buy them.
quote:
Do you know what the ph is supposed to be?
I checked, and freshwater fish can live in a pH from 6.0-9.0, but thrive in 7.0-8.0. What you have to watch for is a drastic shift in pH, which can b avoided with regular water changes.
I am not sure what the normal pH of springwater is, but they sell buffers and such to adjust it.
< Message edited by Ps103 -- 6/26/2008 9:11:37 PM >
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RE: Fish, fish, stupid fish (the kind in tanks) - 6/26/2008 9:11:07 PM
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zoebob
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quote:
Put the betta under a table lamp if it gets too cold. The are coldwater fish, and I have never had a problem with them as far as temperature was concerned.
Really? WHen ours died and I researched them I read that they were tropical fish. I just did a little search and am fiding the same thing.
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RE: Fish, fish, stupid fish (the kind in tanks) - 6/26/2008 9:27:41 PM
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Ps103
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I have had a betta for years with no problems about temperature whatsoever--even when we went away for two weeks and the temperature went down to 50*. (he *was* lethargic when we got home--and lonely--but he perked up.
Our house goes from 63* at night to 71* during the day, and that is not a problem for ours.
They do sell tiny heaters, if that is an issue, but you can't adjust them and I think the are set for 70* (not positive about the set temp).
Were ours eating? I think the biggesst problem with bettas is that some won't eat.
I did look up bettas, and I did find what you said about warm water. I have *never* had a betta at the temperature I saw listed (78-80*)--not even close, and I have never heard of keeping one at that temperature by anyone that had one, either. I am not sure where they are getting that. In the wild, that may be the temperature of the Mekong Delta--but the bettas you buy in stores are nothing like a wild betta.
At any rate, a table lamp will heat the water, if that is a problem 
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RE: Fish, fish, stupid fish (the kind in tanks) - 6/26/2008 9:34:35 PM
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PrincessDonna
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quote:
Okay--did your MIL just fill up the tank and dump 8 fish in it?
That is a recipe for disaster, right there.
For one thing, eight fish of that size is too big of a biological load for a 10g. tank.
For another thing, the tank needs to cycle before anything but the hardiest (and disposable) of fish are added.
No, she didn't just fill the tank and put the fish in. She filled the tank, put some "conditioner" stuff in it and it ran for a week before they went and got the fish.
quote:
I am not real clear on fresh water fish (prefer marine--and not fish, but corals), but regardless, the tank will go through a nitrogen cycle and that is probably what offed the fish.
Even though they died slowly...one at a time? It just seems to me if there was something wrong with the tank, they would have died closer together??
quote:
Without regular tank maintnence, the ammonia will overwhelm the ability of the nitrites and nitrates to consume it, and start the cycle over. This is especially true when the biological load is more than the tank can stand--I think the eight fish in a 10 g. probably never had a chance.
Really? They were really tiny fish and it didn't look like a lot in there.
As for betas...like Zoebob said, anything temperature sensitive in a tank without a thermostat won't work for us. Our house can go from 90 to 50 within the space of 12 hours in the winter, because we have wood heat.
Hmmm...I am learning things...even if I don't really want to. LOL
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RE: Fish, fish, stupid fish (the kind in tanks) - 6/26/2008 10:14:42 PM
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Ps103
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quote:
even if I don't really want to. LOL
ROFL!
If you don't want to learn some more, here is a short and decent article:
HERE
For a ten g. I don't think I would start with more than two fish, and add others slowly after a couple of week.
If you are using fish to cycle the tank, tell the person at the fish store and they will make sure you get really hardy ones. Otherwise, fill the tank and throw a couple of pieces of food in there to start the nitrogen cycle, test the water, and add a couple of fish when the ammonia and nitrite are zero.
< Message edited by Ps103 -- 6/26/2008 10:20:56 PM >
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RE: Fish, fish, stupid fish (the kind in tanks) - 6/26/2008 10:18:01 PM
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Ps103
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Oh yeah--some fish are really messy. I can't remember wich ones, but I know goldfish are (and the really need to be in a pond because a lot of them grow huuuuge), but I am thinking mollies are.
I think ou asked about an algae eater cleaning ht etank. Well, yeah--they will eat algae, but to eat detrious you need a scavenger--like a small catfish, maybe.
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RE: Fish, fish, stupid fish (the kind in tanks) - 6/26/2008 10:22:11 PM
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zoebob
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ROFLOL
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RE: Fish, fish, stupid fish (the kind in tanks) - 6/26/2008 10:27:05 PM
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Ps103
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LOL.
And, there are always THESE
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RE: Fish, fish, stupid fish (the kind in tanks) - 6/26/2008 11:39:20 PM
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thisistheday
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How about African Dwarf frogs?
Link
We've had those before and they are pretty low maintenance. I don't know where you get them; my kids brought them home from school. They were a science project.
Dee
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RE: Fish, fish, stupid fish (the kind in tanks) - 6/27/2008 1:56:10 AM
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DreadPirateRandy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PrincessDonna
Is it normal for fish to die so quickly?
Mine died fifteen minutes into the tank. Talk about an anticipation of getting a new animal just for it to die the next moment. Stupid fish.
quote:
The kids really liked the fish...until they started floating. 
You could always say that's how a goldfish gets its tan.
Oh, and if you're tired of the fish, I would upgrade to a chimpanzee, at least. Your son would have a best friend that could protect him, groom him, and teach him how to eat food using only his feet.
< Message edited by GrapeApe -- 6/27/2008 3:47:51 AM >
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RE: Fish, fish, stupid fish (the kind in tanks) - 6/27/2008 9:13:39 AM
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Wild-Rose
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I would recommend against gold fish. They are messy. They create a lot of waste and you have to clean the tank more often, unless you just have two. Mollies are cute but they multiply. I have tetra which I like, but they like to nip the fins of other fish so I can't have anything fancy. But tetra come in pretty colors , so I'm happy. There are other good choices, just spend some time at PetCo or one of those stores.
It is not difficult to use the hose to clean the bottom of the tank. Just ask her to show you next time. When we talk about cleaning waste from the bottom of the tank we are talking about poop, not algae. So having an algae eating fish is good but you still need to clean the waste from the gravel at the bottom. Catfish are eating food from the bottom, so that doesn't solve the poop problem either. You will have to clean out the gravel sooner or later. It (poop) puts toxins in the water and that is not good for the fish.
If you decide to pursue this I would recommend getting some books from the library. That will teach you everything you need to know.
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RE: Fish, fish, stupid fish (the kind in tanks) - 6/27/2008 9:19:15 AM
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PrincessDonna
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quote:
ORIGINAL: OneOfHisJewels
This is why I don't think it is fair to give other people's kids pets as presents...
I agree. SIL just doesn't get it though. Currently at their house, they have...2 dogs, a cat, an evil large bird, 2 bunnies, and a huge fish tank. We have a dog that I can't stand and a cat that we've had forever. Everything else, we managed to kill off. I'm really not a pet person and I would have said no to the fish if I had thought she wasn't going to do what she said.
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I will sing of you among the peoples.
For great is your love, reaching to the heavens;
your faithfulness reaches to the skies.
~Psalm 57:9-10~
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RE: Fish, fish, stupid fish (the kind in tanks) - 6/27/2008 3:38:28 PM
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Ellie-Mae
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We have had fish that die off one at a time like that too. What some times happens, If I understand correctly, is that the PH level can get off and then it is hard to get it back on track, especially if you don't know what you are doing. If you dump the water and just change it, it sometimes makes a bad situation worse.
Russ seams to have a good handle on them now, and can teach how to care for gold fish. We have four goldfish and a bottom feeder in a ten gallon tank. We also like having living plants in our tank. If you want to try having fish again, you can always call us if have a question. Russ thinks that fish are the perfect pet. All the other pets are held up to the fish for comparison  .
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RE: Fish, fish, stupid fish (the kind in tanks) - 6/29/2008 6:20:03 AM
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peculiar_lady2
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ok...just found this thread...and I have to say....ROFLOL!!!!!!!!!! Oh man Donna......I am sorry she did that to you, but it is very comical to read!!!!!
Paul is a fish guy....he has had them for years and knows a ton about them, so if you need some real life someone to talk to help you can always call. He pretty much keeps ours going, and I have learned a lot over the years we have had it...it isn't too hard though. We have to clean our tank bottom out here in the next few days (gotta remind him to get some water sitting out so we can replace it afterward). When we do it I will record how to use the siphon....it's easy. I will also tell Paul about this thread...maybe he can make some time to come in here with pointers. As some others said though, goldfish are messy and not the way to go...he refuses to get them. They are finicky....either they will last forever or they will only last a little while, and you can never tell which extreme it will be with that specific fish. Another to stay away from are Angel Fish....pretty to look at, but very hard to keep alive. Black Moore's are good...hearty and big enough that the kids like to look at them. Neon's are good if you want school fish. Molly's are good too...easy to care for and tend to live a long time, but sometimes they don't mix well with other fish. We expect about 10% of our tank to die within the first two months when we set it up again after moving, etc. So we factor that in to the mix when deciding what kind of fish to get (cost to replace, etc). Oh and whoever said that the tank size has a lot to do with it, yup....I agree. The ten gallon ones aren't really worth it....the smallest I would recommend to be worth it (other then for one beta in a small tank) is at least 20...preferably 25 or larger. Ours is 20 and it really does get easier if you have a larger tank. One day though (when we have more room and won't move as often) we want to get a B-I-G tank...I don't know how many gallons that means to my hubby, but probably at least 100 gal. (you know guys, bigger is better...lol). He wants to make it himself though with tubes and all sorts of fancy things, so who knows when that will happen...probably never!!!
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RE: Fish, fish, stupid fish (the kind in tanks) - 6/29/2008 3:31:32 PM
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HisCovenant
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Welcome back, Sarah. Your little one is precious. Your wealth of knowledge has been missed!!
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RE: Fish, fish, stupid fish (the kind in tanks) - 6/30/2008 11:57:11 AM
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Ps103
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quote:
we want to get a B-I-G tank...I don't know how many gallons that means to my hubby, but probably at least 100 gal. (you know guys, bigger is better...lol). He wants to make it himself though with tubes and all sorts of fancy things, so who knows when that will happen...probably never!!!
Oh, ROFL! That is so true!
We are going to get a big tank. To me, 125 gallons is *more* than sufficient, but Himself is talking custom-building one.
It would probably go right through the floor if it were as big as he is talking about, once I put the live rock in it 
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RE: Fish, fish, stupid fish (the kind in tanks) - 7/3/2008 12:04:10 AM
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cindybode
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OK, you fish people, if you had an 11 year old who wanted to start up his very first fish tank, what would you recommend? Please keep in mind the following:
1. We don't have space for a large tank. Any horizontal surface is already being taken up by various critters and their cages, or my husband's unending stacks of papers. It will pretty much need to fit on his desk.
2. I don't want to spend a lot of money until I am certain he enjoys keeping fish and is willing to do the maintenance that is required. I will help with anything he is physically incapable of doing, but otherwise I have told him he is going to be responsible for the tank. Yes, I will supervise until he knows what he's doing, which brings me to point 3.
3. I don't know what I'm doing.
Suggestions?
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RE: Fish, fish, stupid fish (the kind in tanks) - 7/3/2008 7:50:32 AM
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Ellie-Mae
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I would and have start with a five gallon tank and put it on dresser or desk in 11 year old's room.
Buy gravel, a small filter (the kind that is sort of like a water fall that mounts on the side, outside of the tank), two gold fish, one small bottom feeder, and two containers of goldfish food (when one runs out you replace it so you never run out). I would see what can be gotten off from freecycle.
Make said child read everything online that he can about how to care for them and then have him tell you what he has learned.
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292 more miles to go!
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RE: Fish, fish, stupid fish (the kind in tanks) - 7/3/2008 9:20:40 AM
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peculiar_lady2
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cindybode
OK, you fish people, if you had an 11 year old who wanted to start up his very first fish tank, what would you recommend? Please keep in mind the following:
1. We don't have space for a large tank. Any horizontal surface is already being taken up by various critters and their cages, or my husband's unending stacks of papers. It will pretty much need to fit on his desk.
2. I don't want to spend a lot of money until I am certain he enjoys keeping fish and is willing to do the maintenance that is required. I will help with anything he is physically incapable of doing, but otherwise I have told him he is going to be responsible for the tank. Yes, I will supervise until he knows what he's doing, which brings me to point 3.
3. I don't know what I'm doing.
Suggestions?
I would say a single beta fish in it's own little tank (doesn't need to be very big...one gallon at the largest). In our experience, until you get to about 20 gallon size tanks they are hard to take care of...and really that's the size they start getting easier. So if you don't have room or want to care for something that large, then I would say stick with one single beta on a desk top. They are easy fish to take care of...they don't require filtration or aerating for the tank. You basically can just do basic daily maintenance (feeding them) and once a week or once every two weeks (depending on the size of the tank and the particular fish) cleaning the water out. Plus they can be very pretty to look at!!!!
I know Lisa suggested gold fish, but really they are very hard fish to care for...they can be very easily agitated by changing conditions...they can die easily...they are messy fish and require you to clean the tank out more often. Overall it's just not an easy fish to care for. Cheap, yes....easy, not so much.
Donna...Paul has a question about your air system....do you have tube aerators, or just a filtration system? If you don't have tubes that push air into the tank then that could be your major problem right there. Filtration systems only filter the water...they aren't good at putting enough air back into it for fish to really survive. Given the time your fish died it is a very real possibility that that is your problem if you don't have a good air system set up.
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