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RE: No death penalty for child rapists - 6/27/2008 9:11:40 PM
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Stronger2day
Posts: 106
Joined: 5/26/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HisFish
quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano22
quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
quote:
I don't think child rapists (or ANY rapist) be put to death. I'm probably in the minority, but I'm used to that. :)
Ah, yes, more liberal defense of the criminal with apparently little or no regard for the victim.
But then, coming from a crowd that supports the murder of babies, why should we be surprised?
I'm curious, solo, how would YOU punish the child rapist? Invite them in for tea and crumpets?
The death penalty, if at all, should be used for murderers. I'm not sure what penalty I'd use, but death isn't one. Maybe being locked away for life or something to do the equivalent. I don't support the murder of babies; it's not murder when there is no person. You can think it's murder and try to guilt people all you want; it doesn't work when you and the other person are not agreeing that biology=personhood. Like I said you get mad because people disagree with you, when you don't know what God thinks on the matter. You're trying to criticize and attack because I disagree with you, but it's not going to phase the other person when the other person is sure you are wrong (and I DO think you are wrong by God's standars on the matter 100%). I'm pro-life. I do not believe the same as you do about personhood. You call that being pro-choice because we disagree. I don't support murder in the least. However, your picking should be reserved for the abortion thread. It's against TOS to drag that in when there is already a thread for it. This thread is about punishment for child rapists, not abortion. Just because it bothers you that I believe differently doesn't mean that every thread we're both in has to come to such things. Goodness.
Can we kill the rapist if we do not recognize his personhood?.
Only apes in Spain...I know, know-different thread- off topic...just needed to add some humor to this thread.
_____________________________
"The journey from your mind to your hands is shorter than you're thinking. Be careful if you think you stand, you just might be sinking."
(Slow Fade/Casting Crowns)
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RE: No death penalty for child rapists - 6/27/2008 10:29:41 PM
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ta_mosquito
Posts: 11107
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From: from MN, now in Ontario :D
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MODERATOR'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
I've deleted several posts for being off topic.
Abortion (and when a baby gets a soul/becomes a "person" etc.) is not the topic of this thread. Other posters' views of abortion is not the topic of this thread. Someone brought it up, but it is NOT the topic of this thread and is unrelated.
Please keep this thread on the topic of death penalty for child rapers.
Thank you!
Tricia
Forums Moderator
Please do not reply to this message within the forums or chat.
Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns.
Please do not send me PMs regarding this message.
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RE: No death penalty for child rapists - 6/27/2008 10:46:48 PM
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StephK
Posts: 1881
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From: Southwest Louisiana
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For those who think this monster will get "prison justice" I doubt it since he's built like an offensive linemen. He's 6'4" and 300+ pounds. He's a proven sexual predator so any weaker non-violent prisoner is in jeopardy of being his prison "buddy".
From NOLA.com
The decision also affects at least 70 pending cases in Louisiana in which people are charged with capital child rape, according to the court's ruling. The law gave the prosecutors discretion in deciding whether to seek the death penalty. Connick said his office considered pursuing death in cases with the most egregious circumstances.
In Kennedy's case, the victim required emergency surgery and cannot bear children because of the rape. After raping her in her bed, Kennedy, who weighed nearly 300 pounds, bathed the girl and waited hours before calling 911, reporting then that two boys dragged the girl from her garage, where she was selling Girl Scout cookies, and raped her in a neighboring yard. He called a carpet-cleaning company about removing blood from carpet.
_____________________________
Stephanie
Religion has accepted the monstrous heresy that noise, size, activity and bluster make a man dear to God. To a people caught in the tempest God says, `Be still, and know that I am God.' ~AW Tozer
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RE: No death penalty for child rapists - 6/27/2008 10:48:41 PM
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Sophie11
Posts: 750
Joined: 1/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
For those who think this monster will get "prison justice" I doubt it since he's built like an offensive linemen. He's 6'4" and 300+ pounds. He's a proven sexual predator so any weaker non-violent prisoner is in jeopardy of being his prison "buddy".
From NOLA.com
The decision also affects at least 70 pending cases in Louisiana in which people are charged with capital child rape, according to the court's ruling. The law gave the prosecutors discretion in deciding whether to seek the death penalty. Connick said his office considered pursuing death in cases with the most egregious circumstances.
In Kennedy's case, the victim required emergency surgery and cannot bear children because of the rape. After raping her in her bed, Kennedy, who weighed nearly 300 pounds, bathed the girl and waited hours before calling 911, reporting then that two boys dragged the girl from her garage, where she was selling Girl Scout cookies, and raped her in a neighboring yard. He called a carpet-cleaning company about removing blood from carpet.
Seriously, these kind of stories bring me to tears. Imagine what was going on in the mind of that poor little girl. 
And what thoughts will be with her the rest of her life as well.
< Message edited by Sophie11 -- 6/27/2008 10:54:51 PM >
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RE: No death penalty for child rapists - 6/27/2008 10:56:25 PM
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StephK
Posts: 1881
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From: Southwest Louisiana
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It breaks my heart too. My mom had a student who was brutally raped when she was 8 and that poor girl is more than likely in a mental hospital today. Her rapist only got 3 years and that messed her up because he told her he was going to get out and take care of her for ratting him out.
_____________________________
Stephanie
Religion has accepted the monstrous heresy that noise, size, activity and bluster make a man dear to God. To a people caught in the tempest God says, `Be still, and know that I am God.' ~AW Tozer
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RE: No death penalty for child rapists - 6/27/2008 11:08:58 PM
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Sophie11
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I think in instances like these the victim is always going to be the one with the harder life, whether the perpetrator spends the rest of his life in jail or not.
Just imagine being the victim, spending your childhood and your life in fear and pain. Then having the rapist spend little or no time in prison. What kind of message must that send as to the value placed on the victim's life? On their feelings?
It really bothers me.
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RE: No death penalty for child rapists - 6/27/2008 11:17:12 PM
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PhunkD
Posts: 208
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano22
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: PhunkD
Under God's law, the death penalty is only adminstered when the victim is pledged to be married, and raped where nobody can hear a scream.
According to you...
quote:
God's law limits the use of the death penalty, yet you want to expand it, and yet you maintain that God's law supports your position. How does it support you?
Expand it what? People that rape?
He limits it to what?
. Murder (Gen 9:6, Ex 21:12, Numb 35:16-21).
2. Abuse of father or mother (Ex 21:15).
3. Speaking a curse over parents (Ex 21:17).
4. Blasphemy against God (Lev 24:14-16,23).
5. Breaking the Sabbath (Ex 31:14, Numb 15:32-36).
6. Practicing magic (Ex 22:18).
7. Fortune telling and practicing sorcery (Lev 20:27).
8. Religious people who mislead others to fall away (Deut 13:1-5, 18:20).
9. Adultery and fornication (Lev 20:10-12, Deut 22:22).
10. If a woman has intercourse before marriage (Deut 22:20-21).
11. If two people have intercourse when one of them is engaged. (Deut 22:23-24).
12. The daughter of a priest practicing prostitution (Lev 21:9).
13. Rape of someone who is engaged (Deut 22:25).
14. Having intercourse with animals (Ex 22:19).
15. Worshipping idols (Ex 22:20, Lev 20:1-5, Deut 17:2-7).
16. Incest (Lev 20:11-12, 14, 19-21).
17. Homosexuality (Lev 20:13).
18. Kidnapping (Ex 21:16).
19. To bear false testimony at a trial (Deut 19:16, 19).
20. Contempt of court (Deut 17:8-13).
John
PhunkD meant that death penalties for rape according to Deut. involves betrothed women, using those verses you just quoted.
I know that... And I don't agree...
John
But you can't back it up with scripture.
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RE: No death penalty for child rapists - 6/27/2008 11:19:47 PM
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PhunkD
Posts: 208
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: PhunkD
I am with you, solo.
As for this repeated cry of "states rights," it is false.
The prohibition against cruel and unusual punishment is in the federal constitution.
What is cruel and unusual about putting a rapist to death?
John
I was just saying that this is within the courts jurisdiction--which even the most conservative members of the court agree upon.
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RE: No death penalty for child rapists - 6/27/2008 11:21:27 PM
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StephK
Posts: 1881
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southwest Louisiana
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The four most conservative Justices did not agree.
_____________________________
Stephanie
Religion has accepted the monstrous heresy that noise, size, activity and bluster make a man dear to God. To a people caught in the tempest God says, `Be still, and know that I am God.' ~AW Tozer
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RE: No death penalty for child rapists - 6/27/2008 11:23:00 PM
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solo_soprano22
Posts: 2367
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That's what I don't see. We're apparently reading the same Scripture, but his says that you can put all the rapists to death for any rape and the Scriptures I see say that that should only happen if the woman was betrothed (and something about her not crying out in the city). I mean, if that were the case the verse that says the rapist and victim should marry (or have to marry) is wrong.... or John is right and the Bible is wrong. Or is there a verse that pertains to this that I haven't seen?
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RE: No death penalty for child rapists - 6/27/2008 11:24:05 PM
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PhunkD
Posts: 208
Joined: 2/17/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
quote:
I don't think child rapists (or ANY rapist) be put to death. I'm probably in the minority, but I'm used to that. :)
Ah, yes, more liberal defense of the criminal with apparently little or no regard for the victim.
But then, coming from a crowd that supports the murder of babies, why should we be surprised?
I'm curious, solo, how would YOU punish the child rapist? Invite them in for tea and crumpets?
wrong and wrong:
I have great regard for the victim--I just don't believe that killing the perpetrator does anything positive for the victim. You can disagree if you want, but don't assume my feelings.
And I do not support "the murder of babies." You are assuming that I am pro-abortion and I am not.
And all of us anti-death penalty folk think life in prison is appropriate.
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RE: No death penalty for child rapists - 6/27/2008 11:31:49 PM
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StephK
Posts: 1881
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southwest Louisiana
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quote:
Yeah, my cousin didn't seem too bothered that bf was abusing her girls. She has a bunch of girls (triplet girls, then some others on top of that), but most of the boys are out and about. But a big problem with her is that she seems dependent on men... she has to have a man even if it's a bad man, and the children in the household paid the price (they're adults now). Even today she doesn't seem to care... just looking for another man.
Those sexual predators zero in on those women.
_____________________________
Stephanie
Religion has accepted the monstrous heresy that noise, size, activity and bluster make a man dear to God. To a people caught in the tempest God says, `Be still, and know that I am God.' ~AW Tozer
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RE: No death penalty for child rapists - 6/28/2008 5:23:59 AM
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jesus1ste
Posts: 1
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I haven't had time to read through every post. How many people in this forum have had first hand experience dealing with sexual predators?? The one thing you never want to have to do, is try to understand the thought processes of a sexual predator. But the concept of deterring them from committing their crime is a total waste of time. A sexual predator is under the impression that he/she is so completely in control that he/she will NOT get caught. If he/she gets caught, he/she truly believes that he/she will be able to rationalize and manipulate his/her way out of it. If he/she kills the victim it is not usually for the purpose of keeping them from being a witness. His/Her purpose for killing the victim is solely because he/she has the victim at his/her mercy. If they can do it, they will!!! Just because they can for the moment. To the predator, the victim is his/her property, it is his/her object to own and have power over. For some pedators, it is a lack of empathy that drives them. They only seek pleasure for themselves, and if it makes them feel good and isn't painful for them, then it isn't hurting the victim. They thrive on secrets, and trying to find new ways to get around being caught.
From where I sit, this crime goes much deeper than just a criminal act. This crime not only violates the human rights of a person, but it also violates their spiritual rights and existence. The father of deception, the father of lies has found his ultimate playground. I am the mother of a sex offender, the mother of the victims, and I am also a victim myself. I have had to cautiously forgive, protect, confront, hold accountable, and heal on every level of this issue. I have seen the enemy use this behavior to attempt to destroy my family and tear us apart. My response to this, "My faith will not be moved!!" It is the power of the Holy Spirit that has brought my son to his knees, it is the Power of the Holy Spirit that has brought healing to my other sons and daughters. It is the power of the Holy Spirit that has brought peace and healing to this weary soul.
The issue of sexual pedators needs to be dealt with on a flesh and blood level to some extent. Yes there should be laws and consequences. BUT! What we are dealing with is not a battle of flesh and blood, it is a battle of principalities and powers. The front lines demand that we fight this battle spiritually. It would take up way to much time for me type out by detail in this forum.
One day we will see a mighty army of saints, a mighty army that will rise up and impose on the enemy the very authority he THINKS he is taking away from them. This army will be made up every saint that was scarred and mamed by sexual abuse. In these scars they will find the strength and endurance to march into victory. The Lord promises that the suffering we endure will produce strength, perseverence and victory. This being true because the Lord made the promise, leaves me confident that people who have had to endure sexual abuse will rise as some of the mightiest spiritual warriors for the Kingdom of GOD! When you take into consideration the statistics, the enemy is preparing his own defeat.
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RE: No death penalty for child rapists - 6/28/2008 9:08:31 AM
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StephK
Posts: 1881
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southwest Louisiana
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I have worked with sex offenders as a case manager and every last one of them receiving services reoffended within a few short years after their release. The offenders receiving services were all pedophiles mandated for counseling after their release. In fact I saw one of the worst ones in Kroger's the other day so it won't be long before some innocent little girl is hurt. I witnessed myself the naked lust he had for a five year old while waiting for his monthly mental health appointment. I made sure to tell his counselor so it was documented that he would reoffend if given the opportunity. He did.
_____________________________
Stephanie
Religion has accepted the monstrous heresy that noise, size, activity and bluster make a man dear to God. To a people caught in the tempest God says, `Be still, and know that I am God.' ~AW Tozer
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RE: No death penalty for child rapists - 6/28/2008 9:11:42 AM
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bzirk
Posts: 3065
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From: Where the deer and antelope play
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If the government continues to withdraw in protecting our weakest citizens, people are going to believe more and more that they're on their own to protect themselves and their children, and then we're going to see vigilante justice on the rise.
_____________________________
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: No death penalty for child rapists - 6/28/2008 9:37:42 AM
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StephK
Posts: 1881
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southwest Louisiana
Status: offline
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That's true. What's sad is the person who takes matters in his own hands after no justice is given will end up with more jail time than the perps. 
I just read that a serial rapist/eventual murderer was on an ankle monitor and raped and killed while being monitored. The satellite knew where he was but not what he was doing. So there goes the argument for the ankle bracelets being a solution. As if it ever was one.
quote:
Ankle monitor didn't stop serial rapist, police say
Rene Stutzman | Sentinel Staff Writer
June 28, 2008
Jerry Lee Williams Jr. was, authorities say, the most sinister kind of rapist: He would rape and choke, rape and choke, and sometimes he would rape and kill. All told, there were six victims, authorities allege. Two are dead.
And the state couldn't stop him, even after the Florida Department of Corrections forced him to wear an ankle monitor so it could keep tabs on him by satellite, the agency says.
While wearing the ankle band after his release from prison, Williams attacked two women -- killing one, authorities say. Both times, the satellite worked. It tracked his every move. But there was no way for the authorities to know that he was attacking the women.
Authorities insist the satellite technology did its job.
_____________________________
Stephanie
Religion has accepted the monstrous heresy that noise, size, activity and bluster make a man dear to God. To a people caught in the tempest God says, `Be still, and know that I am God.' ~AW Tozer
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RE: No death penalty for child rapists - 6/28/2008 9:40:22 AM
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PhunkD
Posts: 208
Joined: 2/17/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bzirk
If the government continues to withdraw in protecting our weakest citizens, people are going to believe more and more that they're on their own to protect themselves and their children, and then we're going to see vigilante justice on the rise.
First of all, this is not about withdrawing protection. There are plenty of ways to protect people without killing them.
Secondly, I find it funny that your answer to the weakest citizens not being protected is "vigilante justice," which almost always ends up hurting the weakest citizens.
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RE: No death penalty for child rapists - 6/28/2008 9:48:06 AM
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StephK
Posts: 1881
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southwest Louisiana
Status: offline
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The problem is that these monsters are NOT dealt with effectively. They are given slaps on the wrist, plead down to lower charges which is misleading when looking at their background, in and out of jail and as soon as possible they do it again. *IF* they were locked up for life after the first offense then this wouldn't really be a big issue. Violent criminals are getting less time than nonviolent criminals. That is backwards.
_____________________________
Stephanie
Religion has accepted the monstrous heresy that noise, size, activity and bluster make a man dear to God. To a people caught in the tempest God says, `Be still, and know that I am God.' ~AW Tozer
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RE: No death penalty for child rapists - 6/28/2008 9:49:17 AM
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bzirk
Posts: 3065
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Where the deer and antelope play
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PhunkD
quote:
ORIGINAL: bzirk
If the government continues to withdraw in protecting our weakest citizens, people are going to believe more and more that they're on their own to protect themselves and their children, and then we're going to see vigilante justice on the rise.
First of all, this is not about withdrawing protection. There are plenty of ways to protect people without killing them.
Secondly, I find it funny that your answer to the weakest citizens not being protected is "vigilante justice," which almost always ends up hurting the weakest citizens.
When I read the posts of others here, I really try to read their posts and not read into what they said. When I do read into something erroneously, I try to be very forthright about having done so. It makes for much better communication than just slotting other posters.
Having said that, please do not read into my posts something that is not there. I have never participated in vigilante justice, and it's offensive to consign something to me personally that you have absolutely no grounds to do. I'm merely making an assessment of what I believe the masses of people will do when they feel insecure about something that most people believe is our most sacred trust -- protecting children.
< Message edited by bzirk -- 6/28/2008 9:55:38 AM >
_____________________________
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: No death penalty for child rapists - 6/28/2008 10:29:29 AM
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19ramman85
Posts: 75
Joined: 4/10/2008
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CAUTION! - SHARP CRITICISM AHEAD!
For starters- I used- to be one of those who used to believe in the death penalty ......... then I went to College as a Criminal Justice major, I also studied Sociology/Psycology as well. I also had the privilege to not only work as a Corrections Officer- I also spent some time in County Jail.
Now then .........
I think- nay, believe- some of y'all need to get off your; soap-box, high-horse, pedistal, or whatever you are on. Because you obviously you just don't- "Get It".
If you think for one minute- the; death penalty, life-w/o parole, or any other lenght of time- will deter someone with a criminal mind-set -
Think Again!, because you are sadly mistaken, and need to wake the heck up and smell the coffee, roses, or whatever wakes you up!!!!
Because the sad truth of the matter is .........
They couldn't care less- of whatever punishment we give them. After all- why do you think they are - "Career Criminals"?
Most, if not all- career criminals, Do Not Have The Morals We Have!
Most of them- if not all, use God and Jesus as a form of vulgar, and don't really believe in God, and really couldn't care less about religion. And while we're at it ......most use Prison Fellowship, as a means to garner favor w/ the parole board- so they can (hopefully) get out earlier.
Some of you people also- do not, understand the mind of a rapist!
So here's a 411 for ya's; Rape is a forced control/coercion type of violent crime, where the rapist uses this control to get their sexual jollies off, and doesn't give a rat's rip what the victim is going through. And no- casteration isn't the answer either. Because it only eliminates- PART, of the problem.
And if you believe, for one minute- a recently convicted rapist , is going to worry about getting- "raped", in prison - THINK AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!
Because in all likelihood- they will rape in prison also.
Crimes in prison have been going on since the dawning of prisons .... and there ain't no changing that- unless you want to lock 'em all up in solitary, whether they be a; thief, murderer, rapist, arsonist, extortionist, etc.
The death penalty here in Michigan was abolished in about 1836- yet our murder rate is about comparable to some States- WITH, the death penalty- gee, wonder what THAT, tells ya!?
Most of the sex-offenders who cry about getting harmed in prison- are the ones who are playing the system! Especially the hearts and minds of Liberal type people
And finally - and this is the one thing i really, really gotta harp on!
Where is the compassion Christ taught us in regards to our fellow - Sinners?
Are these people less than human?- Who are you, that you can call yourselfs - "God" - to pass such a harsh punishment?
Obviously you need to go back and really re-read the part where Jesus talked- nay-PREACHED, about forgiving and praying for those who do you/others wrong. Because, from my POV, from reading some of these posts- you are as far away from Christ, just as the rapist, murderer, arsonist, thief, etc are!
Some of the posts just reek of revenge- more than they do of Crime and Punishment! And what was it that God said about revenge?
Oh yeah- It went something like this .............. Vengence is mine - I alone shall repay!
And how did Jesus say we will be judged?
Oh yeah- in the same like matter- we judged others!
So yeah- some of ya's need to get off your lil' ol' wagon, and get right w/ Christ yourselves. Because you aren't exactlybeing - Christian!
In the mean time - lock all those nasty felons up- and throw away the key, and find ways to keep the likes of the ACLU out of our prisons!
End of Rant!
-charles
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RE: No death penalty for child rapists - 6/28/2008 10:43:00 AM
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StephK
Posts: 1881
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southwest Louisiana
Status: offline
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It is not about deterrence for me. It's about justice for the crime committed. Sorry but I have worked with the pervs and their damaged victims for too many years to know that serial sex offenders and pedophiles do not stop. Many do go to church and speak Christianese but their actions prove otherwise. As we know these master manipulators pick churches and gullible Christians in order to find their next victim. They are predators who will do and say anything to get what they want.
< Message edited by StephK -- 6/28/2008 10:50:43 AM >
_____________________________
Stephanie
Religion has accepted the monstrous heresy that noise, size, activity and bluster make a man dear to God. To a people caught in the tempest God says, `Be still, and know that I am God.' ~AW Tozer
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RE: No death penalty for child rapists - 6/28/2008 10:44:09 AM
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bzirk
Posts: 3065
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Where the deer and antelope play
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At the risk of stating the obvious, isn't that particular individual deterred?
< Message edited by bzirk -- 6/28/2008 10:50:30 AM >
_____________________________
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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