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RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants - 8/3/2008 9:30:40 PM
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zoebob
Posts: 8864
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: land of limbo
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I thought the whole point of the tip was to reward good service. No (or little) tip should be a sign that the service was bad. No tip could mean you planned poorly financially. I think a penny tip says that I have the money and didn't forget but you don't deserve more than that. That doesn't mean you can't speak to the manager at some point and explain what was wrong. Of course, I've had an experience of complaining to the manager and the waitress coming over and arguing with me when I tried to complain to the manager.
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RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants - 8/3/2008 9:33:54 PM
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humbleinspirit
Posts: 15670
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: Just Outside of Boston
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I was at a restaurant earlier and ordered my meal well done. When my meal came in record time, I was really happy, only to find out that it was much more to medium rare instead! Now remembering this thread I did not send the meal back at all. When the server asked how's things I told her that my steak was no well done but thats ok. I left just over a 20% tip.
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RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants - 8/3/2008 9:44:53 PM
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armydude
Posts: 15233
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: NC
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zoebob
Of course, I've had an experience of complaining to the manager and the waitress coming over and arguing with me when I tried to complain to the manager.
And it was then that I said (and this only happened to me once) that he (the manager) was seeing the reason that I would never sit in that server's section again.
I still believe that withholding a tip without speaking to the manager doesn't do as much good because it can be misunderstood. Like you said, it could just be that you didn't have the money for a good tip. It could also mean (and a lot of servers will believe this one) that you're just stingy. That doesn't do anything to show that the service was bad. Maybe a bad comment card, but I've seen restaurants throw the negative ones away. IMHO a chat with the manager is the best idea.
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RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants - 8/3/2008 10:46:49 PM
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Christian30
Posts: 193
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: Stafford, TX (Houston suburb)
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I arrive at this conclusion because that is frequently the reaction of the SERVER who receives the $.01 or $.02 tip. This happened to one of my children one time, and that was the impression. It's just an insulting gesture from the standpoint of the recipient.
Also, there's lots of "minimum wage" discussion here. Most servers are not hired with a minimum wage type of expectation of the job. From the restaurant managers and the servers, these are not ordinarily thought of as minimum wage jobs, at least not where I live (Houston), and the are where I frequently travel for work (SF Bay area). I will admit that this could vary, though
quote:
ORIGINAL: rhippie
quote:
ORIGINAL: Christian30
rhippie: "When I leave a "bad tip" (btw no such thing in my opinion) I usually leave $.01 along with a note stating that the service wasn't worth even $.02"
Hate to see this in a Christian forum. This is a hateful gesture, to say the least!
And how do you arrive at this conclusion? I've told them that their service is terrible. Should I have left a "decent" tip and thereby rewarded bad behavior? Or maybe I should have left nothing and let them think "What a lousy person"? Is it not better to try to teach someone that good service equates to good tips?
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RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants - 8/3/2008 10:50:41 PM
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Christian30
Posts: 193
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: Stafford, TX (Houston suburb)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: armydude
quote:
ORIGINAL: zoebob
Of course, I've had an experience of complaining to the manager and the waitress coming over and arguing with me when I tried to complain to the manager.
And it was then that I said (and this only happened to me once) that he (the manager) was seeing the reason that I would never sit in that server's section again.
I still believe that withholding a tip without speaking to the manager doesn't do as much good because it can be misunderstood. Like you said, it could just be that you didn't have the money for a good tip. It could also mean (and a lot of servers will believe this one) that you're just stingy. That doesn't do anything to show that the service was bad. Maybe a bad comment card, but I've seen restaurants throw the negative ones away. IMHO a chat with the manager is the best idea.
Armydude, you are correct. In the restaurants where my children work, if someone gave a penny tip the manager would just see them as an uncultured person with a spiteful attitude. That is exactly what my daughter's manager said when it happened to her.
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RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants - 8/3/2008 11:24:20 PM
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humbleinspirit
Posts: 15670
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: Just Outside of Boston
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Christian30
quote:
ORIGINAL: armydude
quote:
ORIGINAL: zoebob
Of course, I've had an experience of complaining to the manager and the waitress coming over and arguing with me when I tried to complain to the manager.
And it was then that I said (and this only happened to me once) that he (the manager) was seeing the reason that I would never sit in that server's section again.
I still believe that withholding a tip without speaking to the manager doesn't do as much good because it can be misunderstood. Like you said, it could just be that you didn't have the money for a good tip. It could also mean (and a lot of servers will believe this one) that you're just stingy. That doesn't do anything to show that the service was bad. Maybe a bad comment card, but I've seen restaurants throw the negative ones away. IMHO a chat with the manager is the best idea.
Armydude, you are correct. In the restaurants where my children work, if someone gave a penny tip the manager would just see them as an uncultured person with a spiteful attitude. That is exactly what my daughter's manager said when it happened to her.
Weird, because I have a friend who's sister was a waitress and they said leaving just a pennies surely made the point of bad service!
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RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants - 8/4/2008 8:31:08 AM
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rhippie
Posts: 574
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From: Rich The Hippie
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quote:
ORIGINAL: humbleinspirit
quote:
ORIGINAL: Christian30
quote:
ORIGINAL: armydude
quote:
ORIGINAL: zoebob
Of course, I've had an experience of complaining to the manager and the waitress coming over and arguing with me when I tried to complain to the manager.
And it was then that I said (and this only happened to me once) that he (the manager) was seeing the reason that I would never sit in that server's section again.
I still believe that withholding a tip without speaking to the manager doesn't do as much good because it can be misunderstood. Like you said, it could just be that you didn't have the money for a good tip. It could also mean (and a lot of servers will believe this one) that you're just stingy. That doesn't do anything to show that the service was bad. Maybe a bad comment card, but I've seen restaurants throw the negative ones away. IMHO a chat with the manager is the best idea.
Armydude, you are correct. In the restaurants where my children work, if someone gave a penny tip the manager would just see them as an uncultured person with a spiteful attitude. That is exactly what my daughter's manager said when it happened to her.
Weird, because I have a friend who's sister was a waitress and they said leaving just a pennies surely made the point of bad service!
Up here in Maine (where a large portion of the economy is tourism based) it's the same way. The wait staff know that leaving just $.01 is meant as a message of extremely poor service. I started doing that (and have only done it once or twice in over 30 years) based on the information that I got from clients that work in the industry. It may be different where Christian30 is from but is not arrogant to expect good service nor is it rude to withhold a tip when you don't get it.
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RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants - 8/4/2008 3:12:00 PM
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bzirk
Posts: 2906
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From: Where the deer and antelope play
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Rich,
You've made it clear you communicate in no uncertain terms the disappointment with the service.
BTW, I'm totally on the same page with you. I do not think it's hateful to leave a lesser tip for someone who has exhibited poor service. I've only done that twice in my life, but it was deserved both times.
One of the instances it happened, the waitress was not only rude, but she threw our forks at us. No lie. That was quite a few years ago, and but it was so stunning that I've never forgotten it. It was so bad that I not only left her like a dime for a tip, but I spoke to the manager as well.
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Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants - 8/4/2008 3:18:59 PM
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bzirk
Posts: 2906
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From: Where the deer and antelope play
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Oh, and the other time it happend was when a waitress broke a glass such that the shards scattered all over my sleeping infant child's face. My daughter was in a baby carrier on the inside of the booth, so she was not in the way. The waitress not only failed to acknowledge what happened, but she also did not apologize (yes, I know it was an accident), and she was just a horse's rear end the entire time she waited on us. At first I tried to give her the benefit of the doubt that she was freaked out about the accident. But she was continually rude. I finally said to my husband, who was paying the bill, "If you leave that woman a tip, I don't know what I"m going to do that will embarrass her. She is rude, and she in no way deserves a tip." I should have gotten up and left, but I usually don't knee jerk too much because it takes a lot to make me mad. I also thought things would improve after the glass breaking. Wrong. It was one of the worst experiences I've ever had in a restaurant, and I've never been back to that place -- even though I go to Grand Junction several times a year, I will probably never eat in that place again. I haven't for the last eight years. 
_____________________________
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants - 8/4/2008 3:35:16 PM
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zoebob
Posts: 8864
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: land of limbo
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I had a waitress who brought me my food and it wasn't cooked like I like it. Someone else had also ordered a steak but a different kind and it happened to be cooked the way I wanted it but it wasn't the meal I wanted. She actually suggested we should just switch meals.
I will say as a former waitress that if there is something the waitress can do to fix something that's wrong tell her or don't tell the manager. I worked at Friendly's once. I served a mother and daughter their Sundaes, checked back a minute later and asked how everything was, they said everything was fine, etc. THen when they were almost done they told the manager that something didn't taste right. It was probably a little bit of a different kind of ice cream left on the scoop or something but the waitresses did NOT make the sundaes. He was a nice manager most of the time but if you messed up he let you know it. Well, he assumed I had not checked back on them, etc. He reamed me out right out of customer sight. THe poor woman felt so bad because she had not wanted to cause me trouble and that's why she didn't tell me there was a problem that she gave me a $5 tip on 2 sundaes. It was probably about 40% at least
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L-R: Ellies DD1, Ellies DD2, DS, Ellies DS3
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RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants - 8/4/2008 3:40:29 PM
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bzirk
Posts: 2906
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From: Where the deer and antelope play
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I agree that a patron should try to speak to a server before speaking to the manager -- unless it becomes obvious the server is not the least bit interested in listening.
_____________________________
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants - 8/4/2008 3:47:22 PM
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armydude
Posts: 15233
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: NC
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bzirk
I agree that a patron should try to speak to a server before speaking to the manager -- unless it becomes obvious the server is not the least bit interested in listening.
I can agree with both of you there. I let my brain lag behind my fingers there. Always try to handle problems at the lowest level. The lowest level is of course to talk to the server first. Let the server know if there's a problem. Sometimes they just don't realize it and would be glad to fix it. That's not bad enough service IMO to warrant a $.01 tip either. If the service started out bad and the server worked hard to make it up to you, then show your appreciation with a good tip. If the service started out bad and after talking to the server there was no difference, talk to a manager. I stand beside my earlier statement. Leaving a low tip does not give the message that you thought the service was bad. It gives the message that you're cheap. At least around here.
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Good question, you think?
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RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants - 8/5/2008 2:22:33 AM
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DenimDiva
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From: CA
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My mother and my former MIL were both waitresses at very nice restaurants. They both said that leaving a .01 cent tip is meant to be an insult at the type of service the customer received. However, leaving a generous tip with a penny (face side up) is meant to be a compliment to the server for outstanding service.
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RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants - 8/10/2008 6:04:45 PM
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humbleinspirit
Posts: 15670
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: Just Outside of Boston
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bzirk
Oh, and the other time it happend was when a waitress broke a glass such that the shards scattered all over my sleeping infant child's face. My daughter was in a baby carrier on the inside of the booth, so she was not in the way. The waitress not only failed to acknowledge what happened, but she also did not apologize (yes, I know it was an accident), and she was just a horse's rear end the entire time she waited on us.
Now if that had happened to me I would have gone to the manager immediately.
quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
My mother and my former MIL were both waitresses at very nice restaurants. They both said that leaving a .01 cent tip is meant to be an insult at the type of service the customer received. However, leaving a generous tip with a penny (face side up) is meant to be a compliment to the server for outstanding service.
Now that is interesting, I will have to do that sometime.
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RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants - 8/13/2008 5:16:42 PM
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3tulips
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From: sandy shore
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I didn't know about that "penny with the face side up" either.
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RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants - 8/15/2008 1:12:32 PM
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bzirk
Posts: 2906
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From: Where the deer and antelope play
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I never knew about that either, and I've waited tables. I probably wouldn't leave it at that. For me it would require making it very clear by speaking to the server and/or manager. IOW, no one is getting off thinking that they were merely stiffed.
The flipside of all this is that I have no problem, and actually like to tip for service. On that I have never been stingy and never plan to be. It's not worth it to save a dollar or two here or there. I'd rather save money elsewhere.
_____________________________
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants - 8/19/2008 4:53:13 PM
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moon_mouse
Posts: 420
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quote:
ORIGINAL: armydude
I stand beside my earlier statement. Leaving a low tip does not give the message that you thought the service was bad. It gives the message that you're cheap. At least around here.
I agree. The type of person that would provide bad service, despite being given the opportunity to change, isn't going to see the penny and think, "wow, I must have provided poor service. I'll change my attitude and do a better job next time." He's going to think, "what an uppity, demanding jerk" and ignore any potential lesson. Speaking with a manager gives the restaurant the opportunity to retrain or fire.
I also will speak with a manager if I get excellent service. I figure if a manager knows a certain server is making his customers happy, the server might get the opportunity to work the most advantageous hours, and that will benefit them long after my tip has been spent. I remember filling out a comment card on a server at the coffee shop in the Mirage in Vegas, and I got a letter from the catering manager a few weeks later saying she had been given a bonus and recognized in front of the staff at the monthly meeting. It really put a smile on my face to be able to give a little blessing like that!
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RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants - 8/19/2008 10:39:44 PM
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blue1914
Posts: 361
Joined: 6/21/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Christian30
I will try to get my children to fight racism and approach people with undertanding and kindness, but I WILL NOT urge them to deny realities. That is not healthy either. If you deny realities you can't deal with them in a healthy way.
It's interesting to me how you phrase that paragraph and here's why.
I have come to expect bad service in general much more than good service-in fact, mediocre to good service is such a pleasant surprise to me that my wife often has to threaten me to curb my desire to tip much more than my customary 20%. Taking your statement to it's logical conclusion in MY situation (where the reality is that more often than not, I will receive bad service, possibly cold food and an even colder attitude from the suddenly rude-not previously rude to other guests-and uppity server) I am now free to do the $.01 tip that has been much discussed on this thread already as a matter of course. It's considering my reality isn't it-it's the healthy thing to do!
You can see that when the shoe is on the other foot (your loved one is the one getting the "healthy" treatment) it's not so cut and dried. Rising above the ignorance of another is a virtue that does not need to be confined to Christianity alone (since your son is not a Christian)-it's the right thing to do (even though it doesn't always feel right-often is the time that I've gritted my teeth and plunked down a decent tip to someone who DEFINITELY did not deserve it). You are imploring US to do the right thing-ignore the in some cases deplorable service and rise above-I just hope that you are as ardent in encouraging your children to rise above ignorance and continue forward-whether someone deserves it or not.
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RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants - 8/24/2008 11:13:29 PM
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RepentanceIsRequired
Posts: 1009
Joined: 9/14/2005
From: Home is where the heart is.
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I am glad I stumbled onto this thread. My husband and I are new owners of our restaurant. Our servers (3 of them) are high school students who have never served before. My two girls (one 15 one 16) are doing fairly well. The 15 year old I think will do the best. She is very mild mannered and just has a peaceful attitude. My 16 year old is a little more out spoken, but she is doing a good job. My other server is a 15 year old boy. I feel for him because he is noticeably very nervous. (sad thing is his friends call him squirrel and I can see why). Now the topic is tips. In our small community (population 1,000) in general it doesn't matter if you give excellent service or lousy, they will tip 10%, no more, no less. This really burns my husband (me growing up here, it is no suprise). The 16 year old tends to talk a lot about tips, and sometimes even when we have customers in the dinning area. This I need to address with her.
I really don't have a point to my post but rather just a lot of thoughts. Thanks for listening to my rambling.
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<--- Mary the Muffinator.
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RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants - 8/25/2008 5:47:53 AM
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bzirk
Posts: 2906
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From: Where the deer and antelope play
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We have the same situation here with the 10% tips. It's a small ranching community (around 2,500), and I've found that those kinds of communities are usually filled with people who know how to make a penny scream. That's a good thing, but it makes it tough for people who wait tables. You have to practically walk on water to get a good tip.
Now I can go 15 minutes to the east and hit Steamboat Springs and it's totally different.
_____________________________
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Woes on Tipping in Restaurants - 8/25/2008 11:54:45 AM
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bzirk
Posts: 2906
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Where the deer and antelope play
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ps103
I think some of that has to do with age. A lot of people from my parents' generation were taught to tip ten percent, and that is what they do.
There is a benefit, though--they rarely if ever stiff a server 
I agree that age is a factor. But I also think the mentality in these parts is that it's not that hard to wait tables -- since they do things a lot tougher than that and also serve up big meals in their homes. I'm talking about the men as well as the women serving big meals.
_____________________________
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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