|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: Baptist - 7/19/2008 7:58:25 PM
|
|
|
Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3479
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: a mother who let me live
Status: offline
|
you people are really scaring me
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Baptist - 7/22/2008 2:17:32 PM
|
|
|
yustme
Posts: 399
Joined: 5/2/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
you people are really scaring me
Why?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Baptist - 7/22/2008 4:13:39 PM
|
|
|
Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3479
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: a mother who let me live
Status: offline
|
Oh, ignore me. Good night, who knows what I meant. I can't figure it out. I was talking through my hat.
I do get a little defensive of Baptist churches because of the Baptist church that introduced me to them in Minneapolis, where my children, as little ones, attended their school. However, I did not realize that there were so many differing beliefs among Baptists until the last few years.
Ignore me! I was riding some high horse, and it galloped off down some road I can't follow now! 
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Baptist - 7/22/2008 4:17:40 PM
|
|
|
JimboFletch
Posts: 6497
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: yustme
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
JimboFletch, you are absolutely correct; Free Will Baptist are not 5th Point Calvinist as are the Southern Baptist folks.
Another point that separates them is that FWB's do not believe in the Rapture, but do believe in soul sleep and a resurrection at the end times.
Along with the Southern Bapticostals I heve in my Church, there are also a couple of Free Willycostals. We do have some interesting discussions.
Thanks
RC
Pay attention to the second paragraph.According to the this,the free will Baptist's believe in soul sleep and do not believe in the rapture.
That second paragraph is simply wrong. It was what RC thinks about the FWB, not what they actually believe. RC is not FWB and was speaking from his impressions. There belief is no different than Nazarenes on the topic.
Many believe like the Nazareenes on the rapture (especially in the Southeast), but the denomination has no official position on the end times, other than that Jesus IS coming again.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Baptist - 7/22/2008 5:13:25 PM
|
|
|
BibleL7
Posts: 493
Joined: 2/1/2008
Status: offline
|
To bring a little less confusion on the origins of Baptist Church. The first church to call themselves Baptist believed that they should follow the example of the original church of Apostles and not just reform the catholic church. Two main points which most baptist churches agree on is one the separation of Church and State. They do not believe the state should be involved in running the church nor the church should be involved in running the state. The second main point was that Baptism was to be full immersion of repented believers. No sprinkling or pouring over water but full immersion and not children or babies. Those baptized should be repentant sinners who have made a confession of faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. This is why many will say they are not from Catholic church and not reformist. Oh and the third thing that most have in common is they believe that the church is autonomous and in a democratic membership. Each church is run by local congregation. No main governing body which is why they do not actually consider themselves a denomination. Yes several individual congregations have joined associations and conferences, but for the most part they believe the local congregation rules itself. Some have relied more heavily on the association or conference to help them run but not most. This is why there are so many different Baptist churches.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Baptist - 7/22/2008 5:42:14 PM
|
|
|
drfuss
Posts: 199
Joined: 3/9/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: BibleL7
To bring a little less confusion on the origins of Baptist Church. The first church to call themselves Baptist believed that they should follow the example of the original church of Apostles and not just reform the catholic church. Two main points which most baptist churches agree on is one the separation of Church and State. They do not believe the state should be involved in running the church nor the church should be involved in running the state. The second main point was that Baptism was to be full immersion of repented believers. No sprinkling or pouring over water but full immersion and not children or babies. Those baptized should be repentant sinners who have made a confession of faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. This is why many will say they are not from Catholic church and not reformist. Oh and the third thing that most have in common is they believe that the church is autonomous and in a democratic membership. Each church is run by local congregation. No main governing body which is why they do not actually consider themselves a denomination. Yes several individual congregations have joined associations and conferences, but for the most part they believe the local congregation rules itself. Some have relied more heavily on the association or conference to help them run but not most. This is why there are so many different Baptist churches.
drfuss: A good summary of what Baptist churches have in common.
Years ago when we came from a denominational church into a SBC church, we did not realize just how autonomous Baptist churches are. For instance, each church can elect and ordain its own pastor (regardless of his qualifications) completely independent of any other church or organization; and other Baptist churches are expected to recognize him as a Baptist pastor. In denominational churches, pastors generally must be approved by the denomination is some way or other.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Baptist - 7/23/2008 10:39:51 AM
|
|
|
yustme
Posts: 399
Joined: 5/2/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
Oh, ignore me. Good night, who knows what I meant. I can't figure it out. I was talking through my hat.
I do get a little defensive of Baptist churches because of the Baptist church that introduced me to them in Minneapolis, where my children, as little ones, attended their school. However, I did not realize that there were so many differing beliefs among Baptists until the last few years.
Ignore me! I was riding some high horse, and it galloped off down some road I can't follow now!
I do understand,I'm very defensive of the Nazarenes because I've been a Nazarene all my life even though I attend an independent "Baptist" church.We don't call ourselves Baptist,however they hold to the Baptist doctrine.Notice I said "they" do,I don't.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Baptist - 7/23/2008 10:53:45 AM
|
|
|
WesP
Posts: 2463
Joined: 11/28/2005
From: Where God needs me to be
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: AboundinginHisGrace
quote:
ORIGINAL: drfuss
quote:
ORIGINAL: AboundinginHisGrace
I have been Southern Baptist my whole life. We do believe in osao. We do not however believe in limited atonement. We believe that Salvation is through faith in what Jesus did for us on the cross (became sin for us, a propitiation for our sins). We believe people have a choice, Christ paved the way for all and whoever believes on him will have eternal life. We do not believe Baptism to be essential to salvation, however it is a commandment.
drfuss: Concerning Limited Atonement, 5 Point Calvinists believe in Limited Attonement. A survey in August 2006 by Lifeway (the SBC literature organization) showed that about 10% of SBC ministers are 5 Point Calvinists and therefore believe in Limited Attonement. Granted, most SBC ministers do not believe in Limited Attonement, but about 10% due.
Yeah, I was aware of this, but it is not however in the Baptist Doctrine and is not supported by the Southern Baptist Convention.
There are always a few confused people! 10% will not spoil the bunch. It is not salvic, so no worries.
_____________________________
Peace,
Wes
___________________________________
<--- BTW, this is the true function of corn! It is to help the oil industry and its functionaries, not detract from them!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Baptist - 7/23/2008 10:59:19 AM
|
|
|
Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3479
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: a mother who let me live
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: yustme
I do understand,I'm very defensive of the Nazarenes because I've been a Nazarene all my life even though I attend an independent "Baptist" church.We don't call ourselves Baptist,however they hold to the Baptist doctrine.Notice I said "they" do,I don't.
And I work for a Nazarene church, so I have learned to appreciate them through my work association!  There are many different kinds of Nazarene, as there are many kinds of Baptist. I once thought all, of each, to be the same. Not so!
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Baptist - 7/23/2008 11:03:04 AM
|
|
|
WesP
Posts: 2463
Joined: 11/28/2005
From: Where God needs me to be
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
quote:
ORIGINAL: yustme
I do understand,I'm very defensive of the Nazarenes because I've been a Nazarene all my life even though I attend an independent "Baptist" church.We don't call ourselves Baptist,however they hold to the Baptist doctrine.Notice I said "they" do,I don't.
And I work for a Nazarene church, so I have learned to appreciate them through my work association! There are many different kinds of Nazarene, as there are many kinds of Baptist. I once thought all, of each, to be the same. Not so!
Let's take it a step further. There are many people within churches who hold to different beliefs than other members in the same church. Thankfully, these are predominately beliefs that are not salvic in nature. Eschatology, Calvinism, etc. will not keep you from salvation.
_____________________________
Peace,
Wes
___________________________________
<--- BTW, this is the true function of corn! It is to help the oil industry and its functionaries, not detract from them!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Baptist - 7/23/2008 3:41:04 PM
|
|
|
rcjames
Posts: 5248
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: WesP
Thankfully, these are predominately beliefs that are not salvic in nature. Eschatology, Calvinism, etc. will not keep you from salvation.
Possible might be a problem if the folks consider those things salvic and consider everyone who disagrees with them as lost heretic pagans.
That attitude might be a little problamatic in the love the brethern thingy.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Baptist - 7/25/2008 4:46:39 PM
|
|
|
Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3479
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: a mother who let me live
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: yustme
What do you mean there many different kinds of Nazarenes?
Well, there are some Nazarenes who teach only from the KJV, who have a more rigid modesty policy, who hold to a very tight line regarding all manner of living including believing that all alcohol and tobacco use and production is sin. Then there are Nazarenes who teach from all kinds of Bibles, who are much more loose in their modesty policies, who basically "live and let live," and have no policy regarding dancing, alcohol, and/or tobacco.
In these widely-varied churches, the music differs from strict old-hymn-from-a-hymnal singing to modern worship songs shown on a screen.
They are just different, depending upon the leadership and the congregation, but they still are Nazarene.
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Baptist - 7/25/2008 7:14:16 PM
|
|
|
yustme
Posts: 399
Joined: 5/2/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
quote:
ORIGINAL: yustme
What do you mean there many different kinds of Nazarenes?
Well, there are some Nazarenes who teach only from the KJV, who have a more rigid modesty policy, who hold to a very tight line regarding all manner of living including believing that all alcohol and tobacco use and production is sin. Then there are Nazarenes who teach from all kinds of Bibles, who are much more loose in their modesty policies, who basically "live and let live," and have no policy regarding dancing, alcohol, and/or tobacco.
In these widely-varied churches, the music differs from strict old-hymn-from-a-hymnal singing to modern worship songs shown on a screen.
They are just different, depending upon the leadership and the congregation, but they still are Nazarene.
OK I see what you mean,however,all Nazarene churches believe and teach against the use of alcohol and tobacco.My father was a Nazarene pastor,he's in Heaven now,but I do know all Nazarene churches preach and teach against these things.Of cource there are those who do,but It's not because It's ok with the church.But you cannot join the church and continue to use these things.As far as the Bibles are concerned,you're right.Where the music Is concerned,the younger preacher's lean towards the contemporar,but most of the older preachers are taking a stand against ccm.Modesty Is taught by all the Nazarenes,but people make their own choice.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Baptist - 7/25/2008 8:28:03 PM
|
|
|
Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3479
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: a mother who let me live
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: yustme
OK I see what you mean,however,all Nazarene churches believe and teach against the use of alcohol and tobacco.My father was a Nazarene pastor,he's in Heaven now,but I do know all Nazarene churches preach and teach against these things.Of cource there are those who do,but It's not because It's ok with the church.But you cannot join the church and continue to use these things.As far as the Bibles are concerned,you're right.Where the music Is concerned,the younger preacher's lean towards the contemporar,but most of the older preachers are taking a stand against ccm.Modesty Is taught by all the Nazarenes,but people make their own choice.
Yustme, I could be mistaken, because I rarely get into churches other than to work, but I think that in some areas, Nazarene pastors are silent -- just not bringing up certain issues that the Bible doesn't speak to.
I could be wrong! I have read much of the Nazarene book (can't remember the name of it -- the one they put out yearly with their beliefs in it) but that was when I first got my job, nearly four years ago. Still, I had to ask the pastor of the church where I work what the Nazarene's stand is on abortion, because I had not seen that section. (The Nazarene church has much to say about the sanctity of life, I learned, and their statements are very well written -- in fact, I would call it beautifully written in some parts. So I certainly don't know everything about that church.)
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Baptist - 7/26/2008 9:47:38 AM
|
|
|
yustme
Posts: 399
Joined: 5/2/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
quote:
ORIGINAL: yustme
OK I see what you mean,however,all Nazarene churches believe and teach against the use of alcohol and tobacco.My father was a Nazarene pastor,he's in Heaven now,but I do know all Nazarene churches preach and teach against these things.Of cource there are those who do,but It's not because It's ok with the church.But you cannot join the church and continue to use these things.As far as the Bibles are concerned,you're right.Where the music Is concerned,the younger preacher's lean towards the contemporar,but most of the older preachers are taking a stand against ccm.Modesty Is taught by all the Nazarenes,but people make their own choice.
Yustme, I could be mistaken, because I rarely get into churches other than to work, but I think that in some areas, Nazarene pastors are silent -- just not bringing up certain issues that the Bible doesn't speak to.
I could be wrong! I have read much of the Nazarene book (can't remember the name of it -- the one they put out yearly with their beliefs in it) but that was when I first got my job, nearly four years ago. Still, I had to ask the pastor of the church where I work what the Nazarene's stand is on abortion, because I had not seen that section. (The Nazarene church has much to say about the sanctity of life, I learned, and their statements are very well written -- in fact, I would call it beautifully written in some parts. So I certainly don't know everything about that church.)
The book is called " the church of the Nazarene manuel".All the "rules" in the book are Bible based.I haven't been in the Nazarenes for the past 30 yr's,I'm almost 64,however,I did keep up with them through my dad and he did tell me nothing has changed in their beliefs although people have changed and become "modern",the teaching has not changed.People do as people want to do,which is the case in all churches everywhere.As far as abortion,I do know the Nazarenes are very strong against it.I will say this,and It saddens me,but In todays world,some preachers don't want to to preach on things.They're afraid of loseing people if the do.I'm used to preachers "telling it like it is",in a loving way and letting the HS do the convicting.Churches have changed all over,and I don't like that.Oh Lord Jesus come quickly!!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Baptist - 7/28/2008 9:04:48 PM
|
|
|
janaray1
Posts: 2
Joined: 7/28/2008
Status: offline
|
I think it meant that the FWB belief on perseverance was this: Hebrews 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in DEPARTING from the living God. 13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened THROUGH the deceitfulness of SIN. 14 For we are made partakers of Christ, IF we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast unto the end.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Baptist - 7/29/2008 11:15:54 AM
|
|
|
JimboFletch
Posts: 6497
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: janaray1
I think it meant that the FWB belief on perseverance was this: Hebrews 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in DEPARTING from the living God. 13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened THROUGH the deceitfulness of SIN. 14 For we are made partakers of Christ, IF we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast unto the end.
Yes, FWB believe that they have to hold fast in order to remain saved (kept by WORK). Most other Baptists believe that we will hold fast because we have been saved (kept by GRACE).
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Baptist - 7/31/2008 11:36:01 AM
|
|
|
rwe2156
Posts: 2055
Status: online
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: WesP
drfuss: Concerning Limited Atonement, 5 Point Calvinists believe in Limited Attonement. A survey in August 2006 by Lifeway (the SBC literature organization) showed that about 10% of SBC ministers are 5 Point Calvinists and therefore believe in Limited Attonement. Granted, most SBC ministers do not believe in Limited Attonement, but about 10% due.
Yeah, I was aware of this, but it is not however in the Baptist Doctrine and is not supported by the Southern Baptist Convention.
There are always a few confused people! 10% will not spoil the bunch. It is not salvic, so no worries.
Have you gotten a copy of the 2008 Faith and Message?
I believe a wave of change may be coming to the SBC.
Al Mohler is a 5 -Pointer.
95% of the faculty resigned when he became president of the SBTS.
As of now, 30% of graduates of SBTS identify themselves as Calvinists.
Doesn't appear the 10% will last long.
Problem is these young Calvinist seminary graduates will have
no churches to go to. I think one of three things will happen:
they will be hired by church search committees who are
ignorant of doctrine (and therefore won't last long) or they will
have to disguise their theology somewhat and seek gradual change,
or they will be starting new churches.
You know, by his comment, Johnny Hunt shows he wasn't aware
of the pitiful statistics that reveal the SBC is largely populated by unregenerated members.
Ever heard of the Baptist Catechism? Until I showed my copy to a 70 year old died in the wool Baptist deacon he denied it even existed!
We have the church our doctrine gives us.
_____________________________
The Truth is between the tensions. The "contradictions"only reflect our lack of understanding.
So we choose sides. God help us.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Baptist - 7/31/2008 11:38:53 AM
|
|
|
rwe2156
Posts: 2055
Status: online
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: janaray1
I think it meant that the FWB belief on perseverance was this: Hebrews 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in DEPARTING from the living God. 13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened THROUGH the deceitfulness of SIN. 14 For we are made partakers of Christ, IF we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast unto the end.
Yes, FWB believe that they have to hold fast in order to remain saved (kept by WORK). Most other Baptists believe that we will hold fast because we have been saved (kept by GRACE).
Amen.
Phil 1:6
True believers are kept by the same grace that saved them.
We cannot "unborn" ourselves, now, can we..................
_____________________________
The Truth is between the tensions. The "contradictions"only reflect our lack of understanding.
So we choose sides. God help us.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Baptist - 7/31/2008 1:31:59 PM
|
|
|
DenimDiva
Posts: 6304
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: CA
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: L5FanLady
And unlike other denominations, we did not come out of the Catholic church (we are not Protestant, though we do protest the doctrine of Catholicism)
One of the churches that I mentioned in another thread is a Baptist church and I am currently attending their Wednesday night Bible study that talks about this. I had heard this before, but never in depth. I will pay attention to this thread as I am considering joining that church.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Baptist - 8/2/2008 4:24:12 PM
|
|
|
isaacsmom
Posts: 1882
Joined: 12/2/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: janaray1
I think it meant that the FWB belief on perseverance was this: Hebrews 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in DEPARTING from the living God. 13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened THROUGH the deceitfulness of SIN. 14 For we are made partakers of Christ, IF we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast unto the end.
Yes, FWB believe that they have to hold fast in order to remain saved (kept by WORK). Most other Baptists believe that we will hold fast because we have been saved (kept by GRACE).
I've been a FWB for nearly 28 years and I don't believe that, nor have I ever been taught that my works keep me saved. If I'm reading the post wrong, correct me.
_____________________________
<<< My littlest punkin'
*~*~*Rachel*~*~*
My Space
pirtlefarm.blogspot.com
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
