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Is the Cold War becoming a HOT issue - 7/8/2008 2:39:36 PM
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freakofnature
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Recent talks between the U.S. and Czech Republic to allow the U.S. to build a missile defense system and instal the system in Czech Republic has prompted a stearn notice from Russia who insists that any installation of a missile defense system will force Russia to forego diplomatic resolve and prompt Russia to settle this via "military-technical methods" says the Russian Foreign Ministry
Story Here
Exit question, is the era of the Cold War really over?
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RE: Is the Cold War becoming a HOT issue - 7/8/2008 2:53:52 PM
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davemiller7
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The Cold War almost died out ............... then good ol' KGB guy Putin came along and here we go again.
The Soviets tried to match us with their weaponry before and nearly put their country in the financial dumpster. Not only did that policy bankrupt the USSR, but their weapons were so inferior to ours that we really had little to worry about. I guess we didn't actually know that at the time, but we do know that now. Will they be any better this time around?
I think we need to go ahead with our plans and ignore the saber rattling from Russia. They don't like us, our government, or anyone else besides themselves and that's not going to change.
-Dave
_____________________________
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Is the Cold War becoming a HOT issue - 7/8/2008 3:02:18 PM
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blessedinnyc
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quote:
ORIGINAL: freakofnature
Recent talks between the U.S. and Czech Republic to allow the U.S. to build a missile defense system and instal the system in Czech Republic has prompted a stearn notice from Russia who insists that any installation of a missile defense system will force Russia to forego diplomatic resolve and prompt Russia to settle this via "military-technical methods" says the Russian Foreign Ministry
Story Here
Exit question, is the era of the Cold War really over?
If Russia did this to the US, it would be the rough equivalent of Russia installing ABM's in Cuba or northern Canada. I wonder how many people on this board would have problems with such a move.
I think it's foolish to do this in the Czech Republic- it's almost as if we're taunting a Russia that still considers Eastern Europe under its sphere of influence.
Perhaps a much better solution would be to have Bush fly to Moscow and agree that we won't install this system if Iran gives up its nuclear ambitions (We could use some help from Russia *nudge, nudge*) Otherwise, we'll give one of Russia's allies a similar system to protect itself against Iran and install this system in Western Germany.
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RE: Is the Cold War becoming a HOT issue - 7/8/2008 3:47:28 PM
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cow451
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quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
The Cold War almost died out ............... then good ol' KGB guy Putin came along and here we go again.
-Dave
That idiot in the Oval Office has a lot to do with it. There was no need to push the missle defense shield.
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RE: Is the Cold War becoming a HOT issue - 7/8/2008 4:47:26 PM
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blessedinnyc
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quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
Of course! All we have to do is sit down and talk with them. Tell them we mean them no harm. Promise them that we'll disarm all our military. Join hands with them and sing Kumbaya. What a great idea! 
Look, all we're saying is that it's usually cheaper for both sides to come up with a diplomatic solution than for us to come up with a military solution.
I don't think Russia wants Iran to get nuclear weapons, either, and they also seem concerned about it. If we hold off just a bit on the missile defense shield for Europe, we may be able to eliminate the need for it by getting Russia to pressure Iran into a diplomatic solution.
If I recall correctly, Russia has been supplying some materials to Iran for its civilian nuclear program. A decision by Russia that such a program is too risky would make it very difficult for Iran to continue and would put China in a difficult spot.
Instead, if the US presses forward with the missile defense system, we will:
1.) Seriously irritate Russia. How would you like it if Russia installed missiles in Cuba? Many people here don't like it that China is drilling for oil off of Cuba.
2.) Miss a chance to get Russia aligned with us on the war against violent religious fanaticism.
3.) Potentially revive the Cold War.
4.) Isolate China, a potential economic and military rival.
I'm not saying that we shouldn't do everything we can to stop the Iranian regime- I'm just saying that we should at least be willing to make some minor concessions to make sure that we can ultimately stop Iran better. Getting Russia on our side against Iran essentially doubles our firepower- they have just as powerful of a military as we do.
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RE: Is the Cold War becoming a HOT issue - 7/8/2008 6:36:15 PM
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rlj
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quote:
That idiot in the Oval Office has a lot to do with it. There was no need to push the missle defense shield.
One would thing allowing every former Soviet Republic into NATO which is a cold war organization whose purpose was to help contain the old Soviet Union would upset them also. I agree though with what I quoted. Reagan won the Cold War until Dubya snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.
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1 Thess 5:20 do not treat prophecies with contempt. 21 Test everything. Hold on to the good. (NIV)
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RE: Is the Cold War becoming a HOT issue - 7/8/2008 6:56:07 PM
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Rufas2000
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I'm not really up on a missile defense shield but just from the sound of it I would think its primary function is to defend against a missile attack. Russia putting missiles in Cuba would be more aggressive because it would mean they (Cuba or Russia) could attack us. Why would Putin care if the Czech Republic has a missile defense system. Three things come to my mind. One would be that he is insulted by our perceived need to place a mds next to him, the second would be that the Czech Republic is harassing Russia (like Cuba has harassed us, at least in the distant past) and thus feel they may need to respod at some point for national security reasons or three that Putin has designs on taking over the Czech Republic and we're making it harder. The first and the second are legit and simply moving the system further away would be a good choice and should satisfy Putin. The third however seems the most likely. I don't think he's currently planning it but he probably wants to keep the option on the table. That's just my read on the guy, I could be wrong. And my feeling that when someone objects to something that's good then they have nefarious motives.
I'm pretty sure I'm missing something here so I look forward to learning what I am missing. In all honesty this post is more of a question than a debate point. I honestly don't get why Russia would be against it if they intend to be good citizens of the world.
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RE: Is the Cold War becoming a HOT issue - 7/8/2008 6:59:49 PM
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Rufas2000
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quote:
Getting Russia on our side against Iran essentially doubles our firepower- they have just as powerful of a military as we do.
I was under the impresion that wasn't the case even during the Cold War. But they do have a powerful military best I can tell and they would certainly be a help. Especially when considering the multiple engagements of our army right now, the foremost being Iraq & Afghanistan but other commitments as well.
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RE: Is the Cold War becoming a HOT issue - 7/8/2008 7:07:08 PM
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WormHeart
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Rufas2000
I'm not really up on a missile defense shield but just from the sound of it I would think its primary function is to defend against a missile attack. Russia putting missiles in Cuba would be more aggressive because it would mean they (Cuba or Russia) could attack us. Why would Putin care if the Czech Republic has a missile defense system.
First of all, Russia only have our word that it is defence missile going up.
Secondly - and most importantly - if the US can destroy missiles going from Iran, they can destroy missiles going from Russia. This means Russia has little defence from a US attack, since the cold-war stand-off was nuclear detterent.
Basicly: "If you launch, we launch, and we both die."
That doesnt work if you can launch, and prevent their counter-strike.
Plus Putin is old-school and want to show the Bear has not been tamed.
WormHeart
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RE: Is the Cold War becoming a HOT issue - 7/8/2008 8:01:35 PM
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Rufas2000
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Thanks for the response. You make good points, like I said I'm trying to learn.
quote:
Secondly - and most importantly - if the US can destroy missiles going from Iran, they can destroy missiles going from Russia. This means Russia has little defence from a US attack, since the cold-war stand-off was nuclear detterent.
I find it hard to believe that they think we'll attack them (although they'll claim that). But they might really believe that and I suppose its a legitimate concern on their part. I think we should offer them the missile shield as well. The economics of it concerns me (can we really afford to buy expensive gifts for our "friends" right now) but this is probably important enough to make happen.
< Message edited by Rufas2000 -- 7/8/2008 8:12:06 PM >
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RE: Is the Cold War becoming a HOT issue - 7/9/2008 12:59:36 AM
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CCCdnt
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I'm curious...if Russia were to start building up there nuclear arsenal again, how woud the U.S. respond? Would we do the same?
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RE: Is the Cold War becoming a HOT issue - 7/9/2008 2:27:29 AM
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fiat_lux
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quote:
I'm curious...if Russia were to start building up there nuclear arsenal again, how woud the U.S. respond? Would we do the same?
Given the sorry state of the Russian military, the U.S. would have a lot less catch-up to do than they would. In my opinion it would also be a lot more useful to put some time into restoring the old alliances, which have started to weaken since the end of the Cold War. If Russia did try to re-start the Cold War now, they'd also be in a much less secure position because they've lost most of their old iron curtain states and even the old Soviet republics. Skilled U.S. diplomacy could keep those states on our side, if it came to that, and would weaken Russia further.
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RE: Is the Cold War becoming a HOT issue - 7/9/2008 10:16:06 AM
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blessedinnyc
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quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
Your rule #1: Duh! That goes for any wild animal, tiger or bear or anything else!
As well as a major regional power like Russia.
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RE: Is the Cold War becoming a HOT issue - 7/9/2008 10:23:20 AM
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davemiller7
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Get serious. Major power? Only in their own minds and propaganda.
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
Your rule #1: Duh! That goes for any wild animal, tiger or bear or anything else!
As well as a major regional power like Russia.
_____________________________
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Is the Cold War becoming a HOT issue - 7/9/2008 10:25:17 AM
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blessedinnyc
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quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
Get serious. Major power? Only in their own minds and propaganda.
-Dave
At the very least, they have an arsenal of nuclear weapons and are a major supplier of oil.
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RE: Is the Cold War becoming a HOT issue - 7/9/2008 11:01:02 AM
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davemiller7
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An anti-missile site is a defensive site. As such, I can't see why the Russians would be upset except that we might intercept their missiles heading in our direction. And if that is the case, being in the Czech Republic, we probably couldn't react in time to incercept any of their missiles. Besides, we might actually intercept a missile or two headed toward our beloved Russian friends.
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: TaoPoohBear
Other than promising to disarm our military (the drain in Iraq is doing that for them) your sarcasim actually has more merit than building anti-missle sites next door to them to protect against imaginary threats from Iran.
_____________________________
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Is the Cold War becoming a HOT issue - 7/9/2008 11:03:23 AM
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davemiller7
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I'll go along with the oil, but at last I heard, most of their nukes were scattered all over Europe and Asia and couldn't be accounted for.
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
Get serious. Major power? Only in their own minds and propaganda.
-Dave
At the very least, they have an arsenal of nuclear weapons and are a major supplier of oil.
_____________________________
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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