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Who Should Make The First Move? - 7/12/2008 1:53:29 AM
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humbleinspirit
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From: Just Outside of Boston
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Should women ask men out on dates if interested or should the man always lead in asking a woman out instead? Also, who should pay for the date afterwards? Should the man always pay, or should the woman pay as well? This thread is open for both men and women to respond.
Inquiring minds want to know!
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RE: Who Should Make The First Move? - 7/12/2008 8:59:00 AM
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ShallbeRebuilt
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Mike;
I am unsure whether my position on this can be proven definitively in scripture, but I do believe that it can be supported.
I hold a very old-fashioned, traditionalist view of this subject. If a fellow waits until I ask him out on a date, we are never going to have one. I believe the fellow should make the first move, should be "winning" the woman from the very first date.
In a scriptural marriage relationship, the man is depicted as the spiritual leader and ultimate decision maker. If he wants to get anywhere with me, he should display that from the very beginning. He should be able to make the decision to ask me out and carry out his decision--yes, it takes courage, but that's one quality I'm looking for in a potential mate, so if a guy's got it I want to know right off the bat that he's brave enough to make the first move and risk a rejection.
If anyone has any scriptural evidence that supports a different position, I'd be glad to listen to it, but this belief is so deeply ingrained in me that I doubt I'd be able to change it.
besiderself
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If we are concerned about truth because it is beautiful and good, we will not wield it as a sword to slash…offer truth humbly, as something of great value…guard against…tainting it with a prideful, callous or defensive delivery.
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RE: Who Should Make The First Move? - 7/12/2008 9:23:17 AM
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Grace-N-Mercy
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Y'know, my view of this has changed, evolved, and even gone full circle over the years. Well, that's because times have changed. We would love to go back to the old fashioned way (I grew up with old-fashioned values) but unfortunately things have become very complex. We cannot pretend that societal changes haven't occurred and we, as women, have to become comfortable with approaching the guys, striking up conversations, and even asking them out. Of course, nothing would thrill me more than a guy being so enthralled with my beauty that he has no choice but to follow his conscious and ask me out  but I'm not holding my breath. 
Since I would want him to be the spiritual leader of the home, I would encourage him to be more assertive from that point on. If he continues to be passive, then he's not a good match for me.
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RE: Who Should Make The First Move? - 7/12/2008 10:32:21 AM
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okrox
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I guess whoever wants to go out bad enough is supposed to ask.
Like you, GNM, I have flip-flopped my views on this several times. I personally don't like to make the first move, but, I wouldn't entirely rule it out, either, if I felt like it was the thing to do.
As far as who pays, basic etiquette, I think: The inviter is the payer.
And, a little hint for the asker (men, I think I'm mostly talking to you!) here: We appreciate you being very clear and plain about it from the first as in "Can I buy you dinner?" or "Coffee--on me?" or "I'd like to take you to the concert--I'll get the tickets." etc. It's not the "free lunch" we're after. It's just that very much appreciate you taking charge of that and getting it out of the way. There's enough to worry about on the first few dates without having to fret about that awkward grabbing of the check moment.
Also, when you are make it clear that you want to pay, you are also making it clear that you are interested. If you are wishy-washy, one-foot-in-one-foot-out, we'll-just-hang-out-a-little, maybe-it's-date-maybe-it's-not about just a few hours on a Saturday, you're not going to impress me much. If you can't commit to a date, I don't know that I'll believe you can commit to a relationship. Being intentional is hot!
Personally, I am old-fashioned and appreciate a man doing it traditionally--calling a few days before, making definite plans, paying. I am not saying it won't work any other way. That's just me.
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Redeeming love has been my theme, and shall be 'til I die.
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RE: Who Should Make The First Move? - 7/12/2008 10:33:09 AM
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humbleinspirit
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I think that men in general try to pick up on cues from women before they do make a move generally speaking.
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RE: Who Should Make The First Move? - 7/12/2008 11:50:44 AM
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John_O
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I'm somewhat old fashioned. The man asks. The man pays.
However, should the woman ask first, that's no reason to turn her down. It just means that her interest is blatantly obvious and it makes it much easier for me to take charge from that point on.
In any event, the man pays. Unless the woman is cooking dinner at her place or something. Or perhaps on his birthday. But that's about it.
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Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: Who Should Make The First Move? - 7/12/2008 11:55:20 AM
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ShallbeRebuilt
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quote:
ORIGINAL: humbleinspirit
I think that men in general try to pick up on cues from women before they do make a move generally speaking.
That's fine...but a guy will still have to actually DO something to elicit some cues. Strike up a conversation or something. Maybe a conversation happens naturally or whatever. So, what's the difference in striking up a conversation and saying "can I buy you a cup of coffee or a soda?" A date doesn't have to mean anything except "I want to get to know you"...therefore a gal shouldn't have to show any interest or cues. And what's wrong with just stating that: "Hey, I haven't had much of a chance to talk with you. Can I buy you a sandwich?"
If she turns you down you've got all the clues in the world...unless of course it's just a matter of scheduling conflicts. If that's the issue she should be clear and say so "Hey, I'd love to, but I have an appointment in ten minutes. Is there another time?"
That's a clue she'd like to get together to explore what you might have in common. It's not necessarily a clue that she's head-over-heels.
Why does this have to be so complicated? LOL! Us silly humans...
besiderself
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If we are concerned about truth because it is beautiful and good, we will not wield it as a sword to slash…offer truth humbly, as something of great value…guard against…tainting it with a prideful, callous or defensive delivery.
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RE: Who Should Make The First Move? - 7/12/2008 11:57:23 AM
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WaitingforBoaz
Posts: 3350
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quote:
ORIGINAL: besiderself
Mike;
I am unsure whether my position on this can be proven definitively in scripture, but I do believe that it can be supported.
I hold a very old-fashioned, traditionalist view of this subject. If a fellow waits until I ask him out on a date, we are never going to have one. I believe the fellow should make the first move, should be "winning" the woman from the very first date.
In a scriptural marriage relationship, the man is depicted as the spiritual leader and ultimate decision maker. If he wants to get anywhere with me, he should display that from the very beginning. He should be able to make the decision to ask me out and carry out his decision--yes, it takes courage, but that's one quality I'm looking for in a potential mate, so if a guy's got it I want to know right off the bat that he's brave enough to make the first move and risk a rejection.
If anyone has any scriptural evidence that supports a different position, I'd be glad to listen to it, but this belief is so deeply ingrained in me that I doubt I'd be able to change it.
besiderself
What she said.....verbatum.
I know an awesome single guy, he is an incredible man of God.......I have known him for years. But he was friends with my husband, so I am not sure he would ever even consider asking me out. We get along very well, but he treats me kinda like a sister. I am very interested in this man, but it may go nowhere because I will never ask him out. God can make it happen if it is his will, so I am just leaving it in His hands.
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Nadine
"It's like everything good collided today" quote from my 8yr old daughter
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RE: Who Should Make The First Move? - 7/12/2008 11:59:01 AM
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McFatty
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I believe the man should approach. I said this in another thread not too long ago: if a man is too bashful to approach a woman and talk to her, in what other areas of life will he be timid, especially if there's an urgent matter? It's not a good sign.
As far as paying, as a man I should always be prepared to pay for a date, but I don't have a problem with a woman paying or us splitting it. My time is just as valuable as hers.
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RE: Who Should Make The First Move? - 7/12/2008 12:13:43 PM
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ChoirDJ
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Great posts so far everyone and I find myself sort of agreeing with all of you here. Personally, I think the man should make the first move and definitely pay for the date. I also don't think there's anything wrong with the woman making the first move or at least putting herself on the man's radar by putting out "cues".
This may be for another thread but the next question would be how should a woman "put out cues" that she's interested? Almost five months ago, I had someone from another ministry communicate through a mutual friend that she was interested in meeting me. This is a person I would have little to no chance of meeting since we only cross paths about twice a year when our churches get together for some reason. I communicated through my friend that I will be contacting her once my divorce was finalized. So, in essence, she initiated but I'm acting off that cue and taking it from there.
By the way, I posted on this issue before and the advice to allow myself plenty of time to heal from my divorce before I start dating was well-received. I am interested in at least meeting her over coffee or lunch and getting to know her a little bit...and I wouldn't even think of asking her to pick up the tab btw. This one's on me (lol). I at least want to let her know where I am at along the process so that she doesn't feel strung along. I agree that I need to take my time before starting to date again so I mainly just want to open up the lines of communication with her at this point. My friend told me she is aware of my situation and is very patient and understanding. I'm also learning so much from the DivorceCare Group I attend and I look forward to going each week.
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"Sin will take you further than you intended to go, keep you there longer than you intended to stay, and cost you more than you intended to spend." Got it?
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RE: Who Should Make The First Move? - 7/12/2008 1:01:00 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
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I believe in men being the pursuers/initiators, but I also can't deny the fact that Ruth took some initiative. My dad always says she didn't, but I read and read the passage, and can only see that she did.
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RE: Who Should Make The First Move? - 7/12/2008 1:55:35 PM
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humbleinspirit
Posts: 15661
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From: Just Outside of Boston
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quote:
ORIGINAL: besiderself
quote:
ORIGINAL: humbleinspirit
I think that men in general try to pick up on cues from women before they do make a move generally speaking.
That's fine...but a guy will still have to actually DO something to elicit some cues. Strike up a conversation or something. Maybe a conversation happens naturally or whatever. So, what's the difference in striking up a conversation and saying "can I buy you a cup of coffee or a soda?" A date doesn't have to mean anything except "I want to get to know you"...therefore a gal shouldn't have to show any interest or cues. And what's wrong with just stating that: "Hey, I haven't had much of a chance to talk with you. Can I buy you a sandwich?"
If she turns you down you've got all the clues in the world...unless of course it's just a matter of scheduling conflicts. If that's the issue she should be clear and say so "Hey, I'd love to, but I have an appointment in ten minutes. Is there another time?"
That's a clue she'd like to get together to explore what you might have in common. It's not necessarily a clue that she's head-over-heels.
Why does this have to be so complicated? LOL! Us silly humans...
besiderself
Hi Esther, just for me to clarify, a man when looking at potentially asking a woman out will look at a woman's body language. If it interpetted as I'm interested, then a man will walk up to her, but if it says "back off" then they will simply move on to the next woman of interest instead.
quote:
ORIGINAL: OneOfHisJewels
I believe in men being the pursuers/initiators, but I also can't deny the fact that Ruth took some initiative. My dad always says she didn't, but I read and read the passage, and can only see that she did.
Yes, she surely did some initiating! 
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RE: Who Should Make The First Move? - 7/12/2008 2:57:35 PM
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ShallbeRebuilt
Posts: 1831
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quote:
ORIGINAL: humbleinspirit
quote:
ORIGINAL: besiderself
quote:
ORIGINAL: humbleinspirit
I think that men in general try to pick up on cues from women before they do make a move generally speaking.
That's fine...but a guy will still have to actually DO something to elicit some cues. Strike up a conversation or something. Maybe a conversation happens naturally or whatever. So, what's the difference in striking up a conversation and saying "can I buy you a cup of coffee or a soda?" A date doesn't have to mean anything except "I want to get to know you"...therefore a gal shouldn't have to show any interest or cues. And what's wrong with just stating that: "Hey, I haven't had much of a chance to talk with you. Can I buy you a sandwich?"
If she turns you down you've got all the clues in the world...unless of course it's just a matter of scheduling conflicts. If that's the issue she should be clear and say so "Hey, I'd love to, but I have an appointment in ten minutes. Is there another time?"
That's a clue she'd like to get together to explore what you might have in common. It's not necessarily a clue that she's head-over-heels.
Why does this have to be so complicated? LOL! Us silly humans...
besiderself
Hi Esther, just for me to clarify, a man when looking at potentially asking a woman out will look at a woman's body language. If it interpetted as I'm interested, then a man will walk up to her, but if it says "back off" then they will simply move on to the next woman of interest instead.
What if they read her body language wrong? The guy's loss.
I'm not sure what kind of situation you are referring to here, so I'm asking for clarification. Are you saying you see a woman across the room, and if she's not showing signs of interest you never even approach her? Or are you saying that as you are in conversation with her you are interpreting her body language and making split second decisions whether to ask? And what if you're wrong?
For instance, I can get very focused on what I am doing. I can be pretty driven. Therefore, whether a fellow were watching me from across the room or even in conversation with me, he may see my focus on a certain urgent-to-me project or situation as body language indicating that I'm not interested in talking with him or going out with him...but he might very well be wrong. It's a personality quality of mine.
If that causes him to immediately take me off the potential list, then perhaps that is best...we wouldn't be a good match anyway. But if a guy realizes that I'm focused and waits for the proper moment...then initiates, hey...that indicates some very important character qualities in him that will cause me to definitely be interested.
Oh, and on the subject of who pays...another thing I'm looking for in a man is a generous spirit and the ability to support himself as well as me and my family. It's not that I'm unable to pay my way, but his paying for me is another one of those indicators I'm looking for: it says he's willing to take a risk, he has the money to do that and he cares enough about getting to know me that he is willing to shell out for it.
Yeah. The inviter pays. Another reason why I probably would never initiate...it could very well send a subtle message that would make me vulnerable to any lazy money grubber who might want me to support him. That's not to say I'm not willing to carry my weight, but I don't want to marry someone whose main purpose in marrying me was to have the freedom to sit on his can. And unfortunately, there are plenty of those out there.
quote:
quote:
ORIGINAL: OneOfHisJewels
I believe in men being the pursuers/initiators, but I also can't deny the fact that Ruth took some initiative. My dad always says she didn't, but I read and read the passage, and can only see that she did.
Yes, she surely did some initiating!
I think it would be quite a stretch, though, to say that what Ruth did is something all women should do. Her actions were for a very specific situation in a very specific culture and she was under the direction of her mother-in-law who knew the culture and the laws of her people. In addition, Boaz had already shown his interest in her, but because of the laws in effect he couldn't be sure he had any right to say anything to her.
So I would say that Ruth's situation applies to a woman and she can initiate if:
She is a widow.
She has moved to a strange country whose laws and culture she does not know or understand.
She is living with and must support her mother-in-law who understands the laws and culture.
The mother-in-law tells her to do so.
Under those circumstances, I would even encourage her to feel free to slip into his home and lay down at the end of his bed and pull his covers over her, if that's what the mother-in-law said to do.
You go girl!
besiderself
_____________________________
If we are concerned about truth because it is beautiful and good, we will not wield it as a sword to slash…offer truth humbly, as something of great value…guard against…tainting it with a prideful, callous or defensive delivery.
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RE: Who Should Make The First Move? - 7/12/2008 3:36:24 PM
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Hartjie
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I think that men should make the first move, because it's easier for me that way because I won't have to do anything (lol). However, when I like someone, I feel so nervous that i come across as aloof.... and that puts men off...
On paying, I am not comfortable with a man paying for everything, it's not fair, I am open to paying half, or taking turns... 
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RE: Who Should Make The First Move? - 7/12/2008 3:50:23 PM
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mutinywxgirl
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Welcome Hartjie! I'm sure many of the men here would love that, but would probably take issue with it too.
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The day true love died. The day true love died.
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RE: Who Should Make The First Move? - 7/12/2008 8:19:06 PM
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broyce1981
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I can't find anything in Scripture that would indicate a clear teaching on who should make the first move. So, I am of the opinion that if somebody is interested in another person it is perfectly OK to make that first move. I guess I just figure it's better to find out definitively if someone's interested than to sit around and wonder so why not, right?
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RE: Who Should Make The First Move? - 7/12/2008 8:44:30 PM
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humbleinspirit
Posts: 15661
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: Just Outside of Boston
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quote:
ORIGINAL: besiderself
What if they read her body language wrong? The guy's loss.
I'm not sure what kind of situation you are referring to here, so I'm asking for clarification. Are you saying you see a woman across the room, and if she's not showing signs of interest you never even approach her? Or are you saying that as you are in conversation with her you are interpreting her body language and making split second decisions whether to ask? And what if you're wrong?
Well, both. The first part a man is looking around at various women (say at a singles event or eek, a bar!) and he is looking for 'a friendly signal' that indicates that she is open for talking.
The second one is tougher, a man has to listen to what a woman is saying subtly and not so subtly. Then there is the possibility that the woman might only be thinking on a friendship level but the man can bring it to the next step instead. Of course considering that the woman is interested in something a little more that is.
quote:
For instance, I can get very focused on what I am doing. I can be pretty driven. Therefore, whether a fellow were watching me from across the room or even in conversation with me, he may see my focus on a certain urgent-to-me project or situation as body language indicating that I'm not interested in talking with him or going out with him...but he might very well be wrong. It's a personality quality of mine.
If that causes him to immediately take me off the potential list, then perhaps that is best...we wouldn't be a good match anyway. But if a guy realizes that I'm focused and waits for the proper moment...then initiates, hey...that indicates some very important character qualities in him that will cause me to definitely be interested.
Now thats a little different, if you are involved in something then you are pre-occupied and the above rules do not necessarily apply in that case.
quote:
Oh, and on the subject of who pays...another thing I'm looking for in a man is a generous spirit and the ability to support himself as well as me and my family. It's not that I'm unable to pay my way, but his paying for me is another one of those indicators I'm looking for: it says he's willing to take a risk, he has the money to do that and he cares enough about getting to know me that he is willing to shell out for it.
Now this is one of the reasons why I am not dating right now. If I see dating as an added expense then I just eliminate that activity from schedule. Of course if I met someone who I thought was worth get to knowing better, then I will make an exception instead.
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RE: Who Should Make The First Move? - 7/13/2008 10:13:06 AM
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ebony101
Posts: 759
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From: the big blue marble
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I don't have a problem initiating, but I don't want to do it. If a guy initiates then I know for sure that he's interested in me. So I'll do my part which is to hang around and present all the cues that you need to know I'll agree to go out with you if I can fit it into my schedule Don't want to appear to be overeager (heh!heh!).
On the other hand if I'm not interested in you. I'll do whatever I can to
pre-empt you from asking me out, and I'll only have to go so far,  if you didn't notice the cues that loudly proclaim: "I'm avoiding you." Don't worry, you'll know these cues when you see them  .
As far as paying. On the very first date you should pay, since you did the asking. If I had to initiate -> "Have you seen Rocky X?" (guy shakes his head) "Me neither." I wait awile to see if he'll take the hint. "I'm thinking of going to see it this weekend. Want to come along?" Then we each pay separately. Even for the meal afterwards. Unless you like a true gentleman insist on paying. After I have gallantly paved the way for you, don't expect me to ask you out again. If you don't ask me out the 2nd time I'll assume you're not interested   and will focus my cues on the next available male  . NEXT!!!
After we've established that we're compatible (the 3rd or 4th date) then the paying pattern switches, either we agree to go halfsies or you pay for the main course, I'll pay for desert. We can come up with something, you should be man enough to accept the fact that as a working woman I can contribute something financially to the meal. This should be discussed before the bill arrives. However, if the bill arrives and your jaw drops open, or you fidget, hook your finger into your collar to loosen your tie and look uncomfortable, I assure you that I got an A+ in Reading Body Language when the Waiter brings the Bill, and unless I'm trying to teach you a lesson, I'll just reach for my purse.
Guys take this with a smile and a lightheart. It's 80% serious. You've gotta learn to loosen up a bit.
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'We're writing a gospel, a chapter each day,
By the things that we do & the words that we say.'
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RE: Who Should Make The First Move? - 7/13/2008 10:44:08 AM
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John_O
Posts: 7128
Joined: 9/5/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ebony101
After we've established that we're compatible (the 3rd or 4th date) then the paying pattern switches, either we agree to go halfsies or you pay for the main course, I'll pay for desert. We can come up with something, you should be man enough to accept the fact that as a working woman I can contribute something financially to the meal.
In the past I dated a woman who really wanted to pay for some things (Ice cream during a walk) and I saw it as a chivalrous act to let her be blessed that way (as it obviously blessed her to treat me). I think I'd have problems with someone trying to pay for the whole meal, or go dutch, that would just be insulting to me (As the guy it's my job to provide). But ice cream or something like that. Cool (Well cold actually unless the ice cream is melted already)
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: Who Should Make The First Move? - 7/13/2008 12:16:37 PM
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iheartgmc
Posts: 55
Joined: 7/12/2008
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"he that findeth a wife findeth a good thing." i believe that when i guy is spiritually and mentally ready for a relationship or just having a female friend, they will pray, find, and SEEK to make the first move.
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artists I'm listening to this month:
Our World Redeemed by FLAME (for the fourth month)
Heart Revolution by Hillsong
Portable Sounds by tobyMac
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RE: Who Should Make The First Move? - 7/13/2008 3:01:34 PM
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skreyola
Posts: 1621
Joined: 1/28/2008
From: Mars
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The one (or both) that is interested in the other should make the first move.
I know this has been discussed before, and I think one of the big lessons is that lack of communication prevents any formation of a relationship. So, while opinions may vary on whether a woman should ask a guy out or not, I think it's pretty clear that if she wants him to ask her out, she will risk having that desire unfulfilled if she doesn't at least let him know she's available if he did ask.
Ideally, a guy should take the lead, but that doesn't neccessarily mean he needs to make the very first move.
It's no use talking about relationship standards if there's no relationship, and it's quite possible (for a number of very good reasons) that asking her out might not even have entered the guy's head. If a girl is interested, she needs to let him know she knows he exists. Then she can wait for him to take the lead.
But expecting a guy to always make the first move? He might never ask, and you might find years later that if he'd know she was available/open to approach, he would have. You can put whatever theological spin on that and 'destiny' that you want, but I don't believe God will bring us things we aren't willing to extend our arm to get. After all, we would never advise that someone sit at home and pray for a job without going to businesses and applying for work.
My 2 cents. That and $5 will get you a cup of coffee.
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-- Skreyola
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