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RE: If Abortion is Murder - 7/19/2008 5:45:06 PM
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DenimDiva
Posts: 6260
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: CA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
I've always believed that life of the mother is a valid reason for an abortion.
I have has always believed what kind of parent wouldn't glady give up their life for their child?
How about a mom who has a couple of other children to care for?
BTW- when you get in that boat, let me know. I've never been that boat.
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I don't view a woman saving her life as a murderer. She's in a tough place that is between her and God.
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If I killed my 12 year old to save my life I believe just about everyone would consider me a murderer... Most of all I believe God would...
Name me a scenario where you would have to take the life of your child in order for you to live.
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She needs our prayers that she'll will make the right decision- sometimes that decision means abortion, sometimes not.
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God doesn't grant her the right to take the life of the child so on what grounds could it be the right decision?
God does allow us to take a life in self defense.
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She certainly doesn't need condemnation from Christians who aren't walking in her shoes. I about fell out of my chair when I posted that about a year ago on these boards and I got blasted by several here.
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Middle ground is always about an acceptable level of abortion... I figured you'd answer my question one way or another...
It's only middle ground if there is "John's way" "Middle Ground" and "Wrong."
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Btw... Is rape as well cause? And if so please explain the righteousness of putting the child to death for the actions of the father...
John
Nope. I challenge you to find where I ever implied it was.
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RE: If Abortion is Murder - 7/19/2008 5:47:17 PM
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McFatty
Posts: 1084
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Augusta, GA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
I made this scenario because it is unlikely but not impossible. People who say there are absolutely no circumstances should think about these extreme situations. This doesn't mean that abortion is right in general, not in the least.
The problem for me is that the scenario is based on people making judgments... And because children always get the short end of the stick I believe it would be hard for people to make a sound judgment regarding your scenario because of how pervasive and strong the lack of regard for the unborn... That is why I kept asking about the children getting the short end of the stick... That fact plays into your scenario more than you may wish to believe...
John
It's not about wishing to believe. I simply don't understand it. The scenario simply says that if there's no surgery, both die. If there is, the mother can live. That's it. Would you explain to me how your question is relevant, so that I may understand? If you wish to present a different scenario as well, I'll be glad to comment.
_____________________________
“Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.” – Philippians 4:8
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RE: If Abortion is Murder - 7/19/2008 6:06:46 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 4391
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
I made this scenario because it is unlikely but not impossible. People who say there are absolutely no circumstances should think about these extreme situations. This doesn't mean that abortion is right in general, not in the least.
The problem for me is that the scenario is based on people making judgments... And because children always get the short end of the stick I believe it would be hard for people to make a sound judgment regarding your scenario because of how pervasive and strong the lack of regard for the unborn... That is why I kept asking about the children getting the short end of the stick... That fact plays into your scenario more than you may wish to believe...
John
It's not about wishing to believe. I simply don't understand it. The scenario simply says that if there's no surgery, both die. If there is, the mother can live. That's it. Would you explain to me how your question is relevant, so that I may understand? If you wish to present a different scenario as well, I'll be glad to comment.
Your scenario is based on people making judgments... Given the fact that the unborn are seen as less valuable I believe that would make it almost impossble for their to anything remotley close to a impartial judgment...
As for a different scenario... It doesn't really matter... I too could make one up that would for the most part have only one answer since the outcome is predetermined by the question itself...
John
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RE: If Abortion is Murder - 7/19/2008 6:12:35 PM
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DenimDiva
Posts: 6260
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: CA
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So John, if a woman aborts an ectopic pregnancy, is she a murderer in your opinion?
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RE: If Abortion is Murder - 7/19/2008 6:21:20 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 4391
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
How about a mom who has a couple of other children to care for?
That's cause for killing another child? If that's ok if the chldren who are outside the womb are starving would it be ok to kill the weakest one in order for the others to have more of whatever food there is?
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BTW- when you get in that boat, let me know. I've never been that boat.
I put my life on the line for someone else's kid... So I have floated that boat...
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Name me a scenario where you would have to take the life of your child in order for you to live.
You've named one... I sure I could make something up... I could save my own life if the house was on fire... Not stand between my children an someone bent on harming them...
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God does allow us to take a life in self defense.
What sin is the child guilty of to warrant it's life to be taken... Self defense generally implies the other party is doing something unlawful.
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It's only middle ground if there is "John's way" "Middle Ground" and "Wrong."
You spoke of middle ground and I replied that before it's over it will come down to an acceptable level of abortion. And it did...
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Nope. I challenge you to find where I ever implied it was.
I asked if you did, that implies I do not know your position... Of course most people who believe the mother can choose her life over that of her kid's as well believes it's ok to pumish the unborn child of a rape... And I am very glad you don't...
John
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RE: If Abortion is Murder - 7/19/2008 6:38:06 PM
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DenimDiva
Posts: 6260
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: CA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
How about a mom who has a couple of other children to care for?
That's cause for killing another child? If that's ok if the chldren who are outside the womb are starving would it be ok to kill the weakest one in order for the others to have more of whatever food there is?
Is it a good reason to kill the woman and make her children grow up with out a mother?
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BTW- when you get in that boat, let me know. I've never been that boat.
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I put my life on the line for someone else's kid... So I have floated that boat...
Your life was going to be in danger unless you killed a child?
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Name me a scenario where you would have to take the life of your child in order for you to live.
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You've named one... I sure I could make something up... I could save my own life if the house was on fire... Not stand between my children an someone bent on harming them...
Can't think of anything?
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God does allow us to take a life in self defense.
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What sin is the child guilty of to warrant it's life to be taken... Self defense generally implies the other party is doing something unlawful.
The baby going to term would kill the mother and damage the entire family.
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It's only middle ground if there is "John's way" "Middle Ground" and "Wrong."
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You spoke of middle ground and I replied that before it's over it will come down to an acceptable level of abortion. And it did...
I used middle ground because that was your terminology.
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RE: If Abortion is Murder - 7/19/2008 7:13:43 PM
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McFatty
Posts: 1084
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Augusta, GA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
I made this scenario because it is unlikely but not impossible. People who say there are absolutely no circumstances should think about these extreme situations. This doesn't mean that abortion is right in general, not in the least.
The problem for me is that the scenario is based on people making judgments... And because children always get the short end of the stick I believe it would be hard for people to make a sound judgment regarding your scenario because of how pervasive and strong the lack of regard for the unborn... That is why I kept asking about the children getting the short end of the stick... That fact plays into your scenario more than you may wish to believe...
John
It's not about wishing to believe. I simply don't understand it. The scenario simply says that if there's no surgery, both die. If there is, the mother can live. That's it. Would you explain to me how your question is relevant, so that I may understand? If you wish to present a different scenario as well, I'll be glad to comment.
Your scenario is based on people making judgments... Given the fact that the unborn are seen as less valuable I believe that would make it almost impossble for their to anything remotley close to a impartial judgment...
As for a different scenario... It doesn't really matter... I too could make one up that would for the most part have only one answer since the outcome is predetermined by the question itself...
John
What judgment would that be? I don't understand. You don't think the medical profession would be honest in saying that both the mother and child would die without the surgery?
_____________________________
“Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.” – Philippians 4:8
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RE: If Abortion is Murder - 7/19/2008 8:57:06 PM
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wayward1
Posts: 231
Joined: 7/15/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
History demonstrates that makind is selfish by nature so I agree with you...
Defending one's family at one's own peril is far from selfish. It's perfectly natural.
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
Doesn't change the fact that God is in control... All the stem cells in the world will not change a thing that God has ordained, one of things being the day you kick the bucket...
Uh huh, and who's to say that God hasn't "ordained" that we discover and fully exploit the power of stem cell research? Who's to say this isn't His almighty hand reaching down to ease our suffering?
I think it would be exactly the kind of difficult "choice" He would expect us to struggle with. Hope we don't make the wrong choice again.
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ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
What if someone thought their life had more vaule than yours and gave you the same regards you are giving to the unborn... Given your nature I believe you'd scream foul very loud... Lucky for you someone can hear you...
Again, what makes life precious is full cognizance of its rarity and beauty. Snuffing me out then, or now actually, would not effect me in any "regrettable" way. I would simply cease to be.
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ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
I don't get around... I accept it... It's there... No method... The word of God speaks of obeying, accepting such things because God is in charge and because He is able to use evil for good, that doesn't equate to man being able to do so...
A individual with such power who refused to be a bit more creative than to "use evil for good" is no individual worth of worship to me. I'll tell Him that to His face if I get the chance.
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
Without a doubt the foolishness of God will confound even the very wise...
John
sho nuff.
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RE: If Abortion is Murder - 7/19/2008 9:05:49 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 4391
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
Is it a good reason to kill the woman and make her children grow up with out a mother?
Does that make the mothers life of more value? And if so what are you using to judge this?
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Your life was going to be in danger unless you killed a child?
I was speaking to giving up one's live for a child...
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Can't think of anything?
Again....
Not standing between my children an someone bent on harming them...
Saving my life over that of my child... Letting someone kill them so I can escape death...
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The baby going to term would kill the mother and damage the entire family.
That makes it guilty of what? What is the basis for you saying the child should be executed? Remeber you mentioned God so I assume you will support this with scripture...
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I used middle ground because that was your terminology.
What does that have to do with the fact that you believe there is an acceptable level of abortion. And what's really interesting is that I said that is where I have ended up before and you said you've never seen that on this forum...
John
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RE: If Abortion is Murder - 7/19/2008 9:09:38 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 4391
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
I made this scenario because it is unlikely but not impossible. People who say there are absolutely no circumstances should think about these extreme situations. This doesn't mean that abortion is right in general, not in the least.
The problem for me is that the scenario is based on people making judgments... And because children always get the short end of the stick I believe it would be hard for people to make a sound judgment regarding your scenario because of how pervasive and strong the lack of regard for the unborn... That is why I kept asking about the children getting the short end of the stick... That fact plays into your scenario more than you may wish to believe...
John
It's not about wishing to believe. I simply don't understand it. The scenario simply says that if there's no surgery, both die. If there is, the mother can live. That's it. Would you explain to me how your question is relevant, so that I may understand? If you wish to present a different scenario as well, I'll be glad to comment.
Your scenario is based on people making judgments... Given the fact that the unborn are seen as less valuable I believe that would make it almost impossble for their to anything remotley close to a impartial judgment...
As for a different scenario... It doesn't really matter... I too could make one up that would for the most part have only one answer since the outcome is predetermined by the question itself...
John
What judgment would that be? I don't understand. You don't think the medical profession would be honest in saying that both the mother and child would die without the surgery?
No I don't given the pervasive and strong the lack of regard for the unborn... The lack of regard for the unborn is so common I believe it would taint the judgment in that people would be swift to simply say it would be best to kill the child...
Is there where you stop thinking the child always gets the short end of the stick?
John
< Message edited by SovereignIsHe -- 7/19/2008 9:19:42 PM >
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RE: If Abortion is Murder - 7/19/2008 9:19:02 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 4391
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wayward1
Defending one's family at one's own peril is far from selfish. It's perfectly natural.
At the expense of other people's live unjustly taken while perfectly natural for fallen man is still evil..
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Uh huh, and who's to say that God hasn't "ordained" that we discover and fully exploit the power of stem cell research? Who's to say this isn't His almighty hand reaching down to ease our suffering?
He may have... And if evil men do so killing unborn children He will have once again used evil for good... All glory is His...
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Again, what makes life precious is full cognizance of its rarity and beauty. Snuffing me out then, or now actually, would not effect me in any "regrettable" way. I would simply cease to be.
I believe you'd scream like a stuck pig....
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A individual with such power who refused to be a bit more creative than to "use evil for good" is no individual worth of worship to me. I'll tell Him that to His face if I get the chance.
Without a doubt you'll get your chance... Though I don't believe having youself as your own advocate is wise... Much like a person being their own lawyer...
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sho nuff.
Every word and deed...
John
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RE: If Abortion is Murder - 7/19/2008 11:41:32 PM
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McFatty
Posts: 1084
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Augusta, GA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
I made this scenario because it is unlikely but not impossible. People who say there are absolutely no circumstances should think about these extreme situations. This doesn't mean that abortion is right in general, not in the least.
The problem for me is that the scenario is based on people making judgments... And because children always get the short end of the stick I believe it would be hard for people to make a sound judgment regarding your scenario because of how pervasive and strong the lack of regard for the unborn... That is why I kept asking about the children getting the short end of the stick... That fact plays into your scenario more than you may wish to believe...
John
It's not about wishing to believe. I simply don't understand it. The scenario simply says that if there's no surgery, both die. If there is, the mother can live. That's it. Would you explain to me how your question is relevant, so that I may understand? If you wish to present a different scenario as well, I'll be glad to comment.
Your scenario is based on people making judgments... Given the fact that the unborn are seen as less valuable I believe that would make it almost impossble for their to anything remotley close to a impartial judgment...
As for a different scenario... It doesn't really matter... I too could make one up that would for the most part have only one answer since the outcome is predetermined by the question itself...
John
What judgment would that be? I don't understand. You don't think the medical profession would be honest in saying that both the mother and child would die without the surgery?
No I don't given the pervasive and strong the lack of regard for the unborn... The lack of regard for the unborn is so common I believe it would taint the judgment in that people would be swift to simply say it would be best to kill the child...
Is there where you stop thinking the child always gets the short end of the stick?
John
I don't think it always happens, but it's true that it's much more common than it should be. I'm not sure if your fear is correct, but it is justified.
_____________________________
“Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.” – Philippians 4:8
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RE: If Abortion is Murder - 7/20/2008 6:13:29 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
Posts: 2503
Joined: 8/9/2007
From: California
Status: offline
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Haven't read through the whole thread, but I do want to point out that in an etopic pregnancy, there are 2 choices. The mother and baby dying, or the baby dying. I have heard many many very pro life pastors say that etopic pregnancy is the one instance where abortion is justified.
They would also say in other instances where those are the only two choices it is justified, however, I also realize that many doctors have encouraged early abortions under that reasoning when it wasn't even really true. So unless the mother is on the operating table, that close to losing her life, then no, but if her life is TRULY in danger, than yes. In other words, if it is TRULY a choice of one or the other then, by all means choose the mother, but if at all possible do everything to save both.
And as to the OP, yes, I do think abortion is murder, but I do not want in any way shape or form to send the women who have had abortions to jail. Many of them did not know what they were doing was wrong, and many have repented.
_____________________________
"We basically use what I have seen referred to as "get off your butt" parenting. It employs more interaction, more redirection, more prevention, and usually less spanking."
-Mrs. Wifey
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RE: If Abortion is Murder - 7/20/2008 6:14:30 PM
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wayward1
Posts: 231
Joined: 7/15/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
At the expense of other people's live unjustly taken while perfectly natural for fallen man is still evil..
there are necessary evils
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He may have... And if evil men do so killing unborn children He will have once again used evil for good... All glory is His...
Again, surrendered men obey God's word, even if it doesn't make sense. What man is able to reveal about his own body through science should be considered to be revealed to man by God, considering man is an instrument of God (to some). To deny ourselves advancements like this is to deny God's will and ignore what He shows us how to do through our natural curiosity and inquisitiveness through science.
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I believe you'd scream like a stuck pig....
Your point? If so then it will happen while I'm still alive. I'm talking about the fact that after my death, I won't regret having been killed. I'll simply cease to be.
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Without a doubt you'll get your chance... Though I don't believe having youself as your own advocate is wise... Much like a person being their own lawyer...
Without a doubt huh? I thought you had faith in God. Are you the second coming of Christ? Do you have "KNOWLEDGE" of God? Faith is what people have when they aren't able to have real knowledge. If it was possible for you to be correct in your statement that "without a doubt I'll get my chance" it would mean that you had real knowledge about God and the afterlife. All you can EVER have in this life is faith and hope. Don't ever let your brain convince you that your knowledge and your faith are the same thing. It's very very dangerous. It's the kind of mentality that allows extremist behavior to be performed in full confidence that it is not only justified but often dictated by scripture.
< Message edited by wayward1 -- 7/20/2008 9:04:15 PM >
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RE: If Abortion is Murder - 7/20/2008 8:44:25 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 4391
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wayward1
there are necessary evils
Evil nonetheless...
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Again, surrendered men obey God's word, even if it doesn't make sense. What man is able to reveal about his own body through science should be considered to be revealed to man by God, considering man is an instrument of God (to some). To deny ourselves advancements like this is to deny God's will and ignore what He shows us how to do through our natural curiosity and inquisitiveness through science.
That sounds a lot like a defense speech used in the Nuremberg trials…
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Your point? If so then it will happen while I'm still alive. I'm talking about the fact that after my death, I won't regret having been killed. I'll simply cease to be.
My point is that if you were subject to what you believe is ok for others you'd sream about...
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Without a doubt huh? I thought you had faith in God. Are you the second coming of Christ? Do you have "KNOWLEDGE" of God?
Yes, without a doubt you will face God... What's wrong? Why get hostile towards me... I simply stated you'll get what you are looking for... You should happy... I'd be happy to face God... Though I will not do so as my own advocate..
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Faith is what people have when they aren't able to have real knowledge.
How much faith do you have in this statement?
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If it was possible for you to be correct in your statement that "without a doubt I'll get my chance" it would mean that you had real knowledge about God and the afterlife. All you can EVER have in this life is faith and hope. Don't ever let your brain convince you that your knowledge and your faith are the same thing. It's very very dangerous. It's the kind of mentality that allows extremist behavior to be performed in full confidence that it dictated by scripture.
What is the foundation for the extremist behavior that devalues life in order to justify killing it to satisfy selfish desires? DOH... I know that answer... The heart of stone and those who walk in the flesh...
John
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RE: If Abortion is Murder - 7/20/2008 8:55:40 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 4391
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: OneOfHisJewels
And as to the OP, yes, I do think abortion is murder, but I do not want in any way shape or form to send the women who have had abortions to jail. Many of them did not know what they were doing was wrong, and many have repented.
Do you believe the same for those who murder outside the womb? And does repenting wipe out all the consequences of one’s actions? Was God cruel to take David's son from him since he surely repented... For that matter do you believe if someone robs a bank and later repents and turns himself, with the money even in he should be able to say, "no harm, no foul" and simply go home?
For those who repented... Given what it means to repent I would find it hard to believe they would think that they don't deserve to be punished... In my opinion anyone who repents of abortion, or anything else and believes that alone should hold off punishment isn't really remorseful, they just wanted temporal relief for whatever reason...
Just because someone believes something to be right doesn't mean if they do it they are not responible... The truth isn't hidden about abortion, it's written on each and every heart and those who murder the unborn are no less unjustly taking a life as someone who puts a gun to someone's head and pulls the trigger... You can't say... "Oh no I am not doing wrong, because I don't believe it's wrong..." or " It's legal..." I didn't know better will not suffice either...
John
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RE: If Abortion is Murder - 7/20/2008 8:58:41 PM
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wayward1
Posts: 231
Joined: 7/15/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
Yes, without a doubt you will face God... What's wrong? Why get hostile towards me... I simply stated you'll get what you are looking for... You should happy... I'd be happy to face God... Though I will not do so as my own advocate..
Hostile? I sincerely did not mean to sound hostile. Perhaps you misunderstood me. I meant only to remind you of something I was certain you were aware. That is the fact that you cannot possibly know for sure if I will ever face God. If you continue to assert that you do know for sure that I will one day face your God, I will have absolutely no intellectually justifiable choice left but to utterly ignore you. It is so intellectually indefensible to claim to "know" such a thing that it ranks right up there with claiming to "know" that the easter bunny is real or Santa or any other unknowable thing we all once "believed" to be real.
Bertrand Russell summed this up as follows: "If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time."
This means that "it is tolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt your God". When you say I will meet him "without a doubt". You are simply wrong.
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How much faith do you have in this statement?
None. I have knowledge of its truth.
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What is the foundation for the extremist behavior that devalues life in order to justify killing it to satisfy selfish desires? DOH... I know that answer... The heart of stone and those who walk in the flesh...
John
Fine, so long as you don't forget my point, I'll let you twist it any way you choose.
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RE: If Abortion is Murder - 7/20/2008 11:10:35 PM
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solo_soprano22
Posts: 2369
Joined: 4/27/2005
From: I'm a Southern girl
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: OneOfHisJewels
Haven't read through the whole thread, but I do want to point out that in an etopic pregnancy, there are 2 choices. The mother and baby dying, or the baby dying. I have heard many many very pro life pastors say that etopic pregnancy is the one instance where abortion is justified.
That's not true though. There are ectopic pregnancies where both the mother and baby live. There isn't always an ectopic where someone dies. That plays into my entire point. There are bouncing baby boys and girls around the world who were ectopic... and their mothers (biological mothers) are right there with them. :) My point is just that both have the chance of living, yet very pro-life Christians support killing the fetus because of risk (when the baby can live, or the baby and mother can live).
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For God, For Learning, Forever.
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RE: If Abortion is Murder - 7/21/2008 12:26:33 AM
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DenimDiva
Posts: 6260
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: CA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: wayward1
there are necessary evils
Evil nonetheless...
John
So who are you voting for in the elections then?
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RE: If Abortion is Murder - 7/21/2008 12:40:24 AM
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fallenstar
Posts: 127
Joined: 11/29/2007
Status: offline
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It depends on the situation and how old the fetus\embryo is.
And do you mean any person who says they are a Christian and gets an abortion, or just any one of any faith or belief?
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RE: If Abortion is Murder - 7/21/2008 12:42:37 AM
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DenimDiva
Posts: 6260
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: CA
Status: offline
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Any person, Christian or otherwise.
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RE: If Abortion is Murder - 7/21/2008 6:54:52 AM
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McFatty
Posts: 1084
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Augusta, GA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
I have to ask... Do you hold a political office?
John
I do not, nor do I EVER plan to!
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“Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.” – Philippians 4:8
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RE: If Abortion is Murder - 7/21/2008 10:35:36 AM
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stampinlady
Posts: 1751
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Northern IL
Status: offline
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quote:
For those who repented... Given what it means to repent I would find it hard to believe they would think that they don't deserve to be punished... In my opinion anyone who repents of abortion, or anything else and believes that alone should hold off punishment isn't really remorseful, they just wanted temporal relief for whatever reason...
Thank you for showing us what's truly in your heart. How sad that another believer would wish this upon a sister or brother.
"There is now NO CONDEMNATION for those who are in Christ Jesus"
Yes, there are consequences to our sins, but God's wrath is for the unbeliever. Please show us with scripture where God has a specific punishment for those who have truely repentant? And please point out which sins get "speacial" punishment? I know of none.
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Deb
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