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My two cents. - 7/16/2008 5:27:39 PM
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tbull97580
Posts: 16
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First I'd like to say hello to everyone. Started reading the forums and you all have quite the debate going on. I guess I simply couldn't sit back and be a lurker any longer and felt complelled to throw my view on the subject out there. 
So basically I believe to say Evolution is fictitious and ID is the only answer is akin to saying the Earth is the center of everything, or the Earth is flat. Not only is it flat but anyone who says otherwise is aligned with Satan and is a blasphemer. That kind of thinking has held back our development as humans for centuries and it's time to stop. Why are some of you unable to look at the observed evidence for Evolution and see it for what it is? It doesn’t say there isn't a God and He didn't create the universe. Nobody knows what was before the Big Bang and there isn't anyway,as of right now at least, to know. If there is a God he made a wonderfully complex universe and his mechanism for creating the diversity of life all around us certainly appears to be Evolution. Evolution doesn't say anything about the existence or non-existence of a God. It simply tries to explain what we observe. Just like any other scientific theory. It may be in conflict with your particular teachings in your faith but so was the Earth revolving around the Sun at one time. Why would a God give you the ability to critically think and problem solve then want you to not do either of these things? Don't stop seeking answers to the great mysteries of the universe and life itself. To stop looking for answers and explanations, and simply state "God did it", is in my opinion a truly blasphemous act.
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RE: My two cents. - 7/16/2008 9:12:07 PM
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gluadys
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tbull97580
Evolution doesn't say anything about the existence or non-existence of a God. It simply tries to explain what we observe. Just like any other scientific theory. It may be in conflict with your particular teachings in your faith but so was the Earth revolving around the Sun at one time. Why would a God give you the ability to critically think and problem solve then want you to not do either of these things? Don't stop seeking answers to the great mysteries of the universe and life itself. To stop looking for answers and explanations, and simply state "God did it", is in my opinion a truly blasphemous act.
Hear! Hear!
And welcome.
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RE: My two cents. - 7/16/2008 10:04:48 PM
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Method
Posts: 1096
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tbull97580
Why would a God give you the ability to critically think and problem solve then want you to not do either of these things?
You are in good company.
“I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.”--Galileo Galilei
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RE: My two cents. - 7/16/2008 10:39:01 PM
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drmark
Posts: 3265
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quote:
Why are some of you unable to look at the observed evidence for Evolution and see it for what it is? Please share any of this so-called observed evidence for evolution, tbull.
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: My two cents. - 7/16/2008 10:47:24 PM
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evry1needsgod
Posts: 500
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quote:
You are in good company.
Except, you know nothing about God. Until you receive Jesus as your personal Savior, the OP will not be in good company. Don't be fooled tbull97580.
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RE: My two cents. - 7/16/2008 10:48:13 PM
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Aristocrat
Posts: 856
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
Why are some of you unable to look at the observed evidence for Evolution and see it for what it is? Please share any of this so-called observed evidence for evolution, tbull.
Every facet of biology is evidence of the Theory of Evolution, but, nothing in biology supports or even shows the slightest resemblance to the Book of Genesis in the Bible.
_____________________________
I find it odd that ID proponents call evolution materialistic and then take the materialistic approach to finding the ID or Creator.
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RE: My two cents. - 7/16/2008 10:58:39 PM
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evry1needsgod
Posts: 500
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quote:
but, nothing in biology supports or even shows the slightest resemblance to the Book of Genesis in the Bible.
So let's just throw our Bibles in the trash?
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RE: My two cents. - 7/16/2008 10:59:31 PM
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drj11
Posts: 632
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quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
quote:
You are in good company.
Except, you know nothing about God. Until you receive Jesus as your personal Savior, the OP will not be in good company. Don't be fooled tbull97580.
Evolution and Jesus arent mutually exclusive. Your assumption that people who may embrace evolution somehow 'haven't received Jesus' is completely false, and probably even insulting to those good Christians who have actually exercised faith and the reason and intellect that was given to them when trying to understand the world.
< Message edited by drj11 -- 7/16/2008 11:05:58 PM >
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RE: My two cents. - 7/16/2008 11:00:51 PM
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drj11
Posts: 632
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quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
quote:
but, nothing in biology supports or even shows the slightest resemblance to the Book of Genesis in the Bible.
So let's just throw our Bibles in the trash?
No, you just need to consider alternative interpretations of stories that clearly arent literal or historical.
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RE: My two cents. - 7/16/2008 11:10:14 PM
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evry1needsgod
Posts: 500
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quote:
No, you just need to consider alternative interpretations of stories that clearly arent literal or historical.
Since they are "clearly" not literal, please prove to me why they are not, since you obviously believe it a fact that they aren't. You must have some reason, other than your biased evolutionism dogma. At least, I hope so.
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RE: My two cents. - 7/16/2008 11:12:33 PM
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evry1needsgod
Posts: 500
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quote:
Your assumption that people who may embrace evolution somehow 'haven't received Jesus' is completely false,
Drj11, please show me where I made that assumption. Method is not a Christian. Until Christ lives in Him, he has no knowledge of God's power.
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RE: My two cents. - 7/16/2008 11:21:52 PM
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essentialsaltes
Posts: 1025
Joined: 10/14/2007
From: Inglewood, CA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
quote:
but, nothing in biology supports or even shows the slightest resemblance to the Book of Genesis in the Bible.
So let's just throw our Bibles in the trash?
No, just don't lecture from them in biology class.
_____________________________
"My object in all arguments is not to make any preconceived opinion of mine seem right, but merely to discover and establish the truth, whatever the truth may be."
-- HP Lovecraft, letter to Robert E. Howard 7/27-28/34
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RE: My two cents. - 7/16/2008 11:28:58 PM
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evry1needsgod
Posts: 500
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quote:
ORIGINAL: essentialsaltes
quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
quote:
but, nothing in biology supports or even shows the slightest resemblance to the Book of Genesis in the Bible.
So let's just throw our Bibles in the trash?
No, just don't lecture from them in biology class.
And that goes for evolution too, because evolution is nothing but faith in your interpretations. No facts prove evolution. Only faith and beliefs do, so let's apply the same standard to evolution. Keeping evolution and the Bible out of science class is something I would be willing to accept.
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RE: My two cents. - 7/16/2008 11:42:00 PM
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Method
Posts: 1096
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quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
quote:
You are in good company.
Except, you know nothing about God.
But I do know about Galileo. His humility might teach you something.
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RE: My two cents. - 7/16/2008 11:50:25 PM
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evry1needsgod
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Method
quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
quote:
You are in good company.
Except, you know nothing about God.
But I do know about Galileo. His humility might teach you something.
You would be better off placing your faith and trust in God Almighty, and not a mere philosopher.
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RE: My two cents. - 7/17/2008 9:02:22 AM
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drmark
Posts: 3265
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:
Every facet of biology is evidence of the Theory of Evolution, but, nothing in biology supports or even shows the slightest resemblance to the Book of Genesis in the Bible. C'mon, Aristocrat, do you have a specific example of observed evolution or do you just want to promote your style of incorrect hermeneutics?
quote:
You would be better off placing your faith and trust in God Almighty, and not a mere philosopher. Right on, e1ng! But I recall Galileo's claim to fame was as an astronomer, not philosopher. However, Method is also mistaken - Galileo was far from humble as THIS EXERPT indicates:
quote:
Galileo was a very obstinate, overly-sensitive and aggressive scientist, who created many deadly enemies by his harsh polemics even among those who no longer followed the Ptolemaic worldview. Galileo had already earned the nickname ‘the wrangler’ during his student days, Koestler shows repeatedly that this personal aspect of many of Galileo’s battles made it impossible for other scientists to work with him.
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: My two cents. - 7/17/2008 10:03:51 AM
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essentialsaltes
Posts: 1025
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From: Inglewood, CA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
quote:
ORIGINAL: essentialsaltes
quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
quote:
but, nothing in biology supports or even shows the slightest resemblance to the Book of Genesis in the Bible.
So let's just throw our Bibles in the trash?
No, just don't lecture from them in biology class.
And that goes for evolution too, because evolution is nothing but faith in your interpretations.
Wrong. Evolution is the best scientific theory for the relevant phenomena and evidence. We should teach science in science class. We should teach evolution in biology class.
quote:
No facts prove evolution. Only faith and beliefs do, so let's apply the same standard to evolution.
No facts prove the atomic theory or Einstein's theory of relativity. There is no proof in science. Faith and beliefs prove nothing. However, there is strong evidentiary support for evolution, atomic theory and relativity. They are our best scientific theories for the relevant phenomena. They should be taught in science class.
_____________________________
"My object in all arguments is not to make any preconceived opinion of mine seem right, but merely to discover and establish the truth, whatever the truth may be."
-- HP Lovecraft, letter to Robert E. Howard 7/27-28/34
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RE: My two cents. - 7/17/2008 10:34:42 AM
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Aristocrat
Posts: 856
Joined: 8/3/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
Every facet of biology is evidence of the Theory of Evolution, but, nothing in biology supports or even shows the slightest resemblance to the Book of Genesis in the Bible. C'mon, Aristocrat, do you have a specific example of observed evolution or do you just want to promote your style of incorrect hermeneutics?
Sure. Science is always testing the theory of evolution. It's creationism/ ID that cannot be tested. Unless you know something you're not telling me.
"Experiments also show that populations can evolve.
John Endler of the University of California has conducted experiments with the guppies of Trinidad that clearly show selection at work. The scenario: Female guppies prefer colorful males for mating purposes. Predatory fish also "prefer" colorful males, but for a less complimentary purpose — a source of food that is easy to spot. Some portions of the streams where guppies live have fewer predators than others and in these locations the males are more colorful (top frame). Not surprisingly, males in locations where there are more predators tend to be less colorful (bottom frame).
When Dr. Endler transferred predatory fish to the regions with brightly colored male guppies, selection acted rapidly to produce a population of duller males. This demonstrates that persistent variation within a population provides the raw material for rapid evolution when environmental conditions change.
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/0_0_0/lines_15
Here is the broader view:
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/lines_01
These are facts that cannot be disputed, drmark. Oh they can be twisted around, or denied, but they remain solid factual demonstrations of the Theory of Evolution. Nothing can change that.
_____________________________
I find it odd that ID proponents call evolution materialistic and then take the materialistic approach to finding the ID or Creator.
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RE: My two cents. - 7/17/2008 10:47:15 AM
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drmark
Posts: 3265
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:
"Experiments also show that populations can evolve. No, observational experiments show that population can adapt. All the guppies still remain guppies! No evolution has occurred, so do you have another real example, or just more posturing about RM + NS = adaptation.
quote:
This demonstrates that persistent variation within a population provides the raw material for rapid evolution when environmental conditions change. No, this demonstrates the fertile imagination of evolutionists clinging desparately to their religion of naturalism.
quote:
These are facts that cannot be disputed, drmark. Oh they can be twisted around, or denied, but they remain solid factual demonstrations of the Theory of Evolution. Nothing can change that. Evolution has never, is not now, and will never occur. These are facts that cannot be disputed, Aristocrat. Oh they can be twisted around, or denied, but they remain solid factual evidence that the Theory of Evolution is intellectual fantasy. Nothing can change that (but the demonstration of evolution!).
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: My two cents. - 7/17/2008 10:50:22 AM
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Method
Posts: 1096
Joined: 9/19/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
You would be better off placing your faith and trust in God Almighty, and not a mere philosopher.
First off, Galileo was an astronomer. Secondly, we would still think that the Sun orbits the Earth if we trusted the Bible over Galileo.
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RE: My two cents. - 7/17/2008 10:51:31 AM
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Method
Posts: 1096
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
Evolution has never, is not now, and will never occur.
In the words of Galileo, "And yet they evolve."
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RE: My two cents. - 7/17/2008 10:52:54 AM
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drmark
Posts: 3265
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:
Secondly, we would still think that the Sun orbits the Earth if we trusted the Bible over Galileo. Your unwarranted confidence in the Catholic Church appears to rival your unwarranted confidence in evolutionary theory!
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: My two cents. - 7/17/2008 10:57:53 AM
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Method
Posts: 1096
Joined: 9/19/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
Your unwarranted confidence in the Catholic Church appears to rival your unwarranted confidence in evolutionary theory!
My unwarranted confidence is only rivaled by your dogmatic confidence in the authors of Genesis.
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RE: My two cents. - 7/17/2008 11:00:11 AM
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Aristocrat
Posts: 856
Joined: 8/3/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
....... observational experiments show that population can adapt. All the guppies still remain guppies! No evolution has occurred, so do you have another real example, or just more posturing about RM + NS = adaptation. Adaptation was a primary concept as Darwin honed his knowledge about Evolution. Remember, that was the Galapogos Finches. Combined with transitional fossils and other scientific factors, evolution stands tested and proven. That's just fact. Nothing can change it.
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...... this demonstrates the fertile imagination of evolutionists clinging desparately to their religion of naturalism. Call it whatever you wish, it doesn't change the fact that the Theory of Evolution is being tested, observed and proven, time and time again. Nothing can change that.
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Evolution has never, is not now, and will never occur.
I believe there is a God, but I have been shown empirically that the Theory of Evolution is a fact. Nothing can change that.
_____________________________
I find it odd that ID proponents call evolution materialistic and then take the materialistic approach to finding the ID or Creator.
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RE: My two cents. - 7/17/2008 11:18:05 AM
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drmark
Posts: 3265
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quote:
My unwarranted confidence is only rivaled by your dogmatic confidence in the authors of Genesis. Thanks for the compliment! True confidence in the Author of Dogma is indeed precious. Unwarranted confidence in the fallible institutions of man is to be pitied.
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Call it whatever you wish No Aristocrat, the evolutionists need no help in calling their religion whatever they wish!
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the Theory of Evolution is being tested, observed and proven, time and time again. Nothing can change that. I figured you didn't have any real examples of evolution, just more fanciful rhetoric.
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I believe there is a God, but I have been shown empirically that the Theory of Evolution is a fact. Nothing can change that. I believe there is the Creator God and He has shown all of us the facts of creation in Genesis 1. Nothing can change that.
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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