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RE: Mental Health Issues - One Stop Thread - 4/15/2006 8:24:39 PM
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womaninchrist
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I will never offer any support to NAMI after some of the things I've seen them do (like advocate for the forced medication of ALL people with mental illness). I will especially not seek support through their groups after the number of times I've been blasted (in person, and on the phone) for letting it slip that I'm an actively practicing Christian. Sad to say, the anti-treatment diatribe of some recent posters in this thread is much closer to supportive than some of the "support" I've gotten through NAMI after letting it be known what religion I practice. I long ago learned that if I must deal with NAMI to keep my Christianity VERY quiet so on the rare occasions that I venture into NAMI's forums, I rigidly avoid their ones about religion and mental illness.
You're not the first to recommend them as a source of support though. Maybe NAMI's hidden agendas are just a west coast thing. I don't know. I just know that I've had one bad experience after another between CA and WA.
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RE: Mental Health Issues - One Stop Thread - 4/15/2006 8:41:18 PM
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pneumatikos1123
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Has anyone experienced psychological healing like diolectic describes, without medical treatment? It sounds very dangerous. The news runs stories of the horrors that take place when people's meds are removed.
< Message edited by pneumatikos1123 -- 4/15/2006 8:46:22 PM >
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RE: Mental Health Issues - One Stop Thread - 4/15/2006 9:50:44 PM
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womaninchrist
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I've prayed to be healed of my bipolar for years (let's see, I've had it almost 16 years but only been Christian for a bit over 12 years and been praying for healing through at least most of that) and most of that time I've had others (lots of others) praying for my healing. I've been cured of a hearing problem, gangrene, and a problem with my ulnar nerve - but for whatever reason the Lord might have, the bipolar has never been lifted.
I can't really go into specifics without violating confidences, but while I've seen a FEW (max of about 5) instances where someone's illness did involve either unrepentant sin or demonic involvement - NOT ONE of those instances involved a mental illness. While I've seen many people healed through prayer, again NOT ONE of those healings lifted a mental illness.
And while I'll admit that I'm one of Crosswalk's handful of Pentecostals, most stories I've heard of seeking healing from a mental illness through the church is a horror story. Usually involving being ordered off meds (without any reason to even suspect healing), being ordered to stay off meds once they're stopped (often with something mumbled about lack of faith or being contrary to God - or even that meds block healing - oddly enough, insulin use wouldn't block healing of diabetes), getting forced to do all sorts of ritualistic spiritual practices (fasts, specific prayers, meditation on specified Scriptures, etc.), and often a deliverance service. So while I don't know anyone who's been healed of a mental illness, I do know many who've been scared away from the church by the things done supposedly to heal a mental illness or who've been turned away from the church because a mental illness is said to be undeniable proof that the person is in some sort of condition that prevents salvation.
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[Deleted] - 4/15/2006 9:52:02 PM
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RE: Mental Health Issues - One Stop Thread - 4/15/2006 10:08:15 PM
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chbyron
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Wow. Your experience is really different from mine. But California and North Carolina are very different places, that is for sure. There is a very active NAMI faith community in California, but from what I can tell, they're pretty mainstream Christian, not evangelical. You can find them on the NAMI Faith Communities page at FaithNet if you want to check them out.
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RE: Mental Health Issues - One Stop Thread - 4/15/2006 10:16:46 PM
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chbyron
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I've actually been involved in praying someone out of a psychotic episode, but the same person, two years later, committed suicide. She should have been medicated but she refused treatment and everyone around her was letting her insist that her needs were spiritual, not medical. It is *so* symptomatic (of both schizophrenia and bipolar disorder) to be convinced that the spiritual world is the cause of symptoms that medications actually can free you from. And the fact that prayer did free her once doesn't say it wasn't a physical need, any more than that fact that prayer has healed broken bones and cancers and migraines suggests that these aren't physical illnesses (the last two are also illnesses that I've been part of praying people through). The God who created the oceans, in all their chemical complexity, can certainly shift the chemical balance in the brain of one human being. Why He doesn't always do it is the same question we have for all healing.
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RE: Mental Health Issues - One Stop Thread - 4/15/2006 10:24:55 PM
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pneumatikos1123
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wouldn't the symptoms of schizophrenia mimic demonic possession fairly closely? or maybe multiple personality disorder? would, then someone in New Testament times, with schizophrenia or MPD, be diagnosed as demonized?
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RE: Mental Health Issues - One Stop Thread - 4/15/2006 10:36:47 PM
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janvaneyck
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Popping in with just a quick note to say I'm glad these forums have a corner for MI issues - I have Bipolar I and psychosis. I'm currently on meds for these problems (Abilify, Lamictal, Lithium, Seroquel and Zoloft) and have taken many others. By God's grace I'm now stable, and am starting to pick up the pieces, where they may lie, of the life I had before my diagnosis. Thanks for carving out this space for people like me!
_____________________________
<---------------Sharpening Iron
Proverbs 27:17 "As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another."
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RE: Mental Health Issues - One Stop Thread - 4/15/2006 10:37:15 PM
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womaninchrist
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I suppose there's room for a bit of overlap in "symptoms" but it seems to me that if schizophrenia, MPD or any other disorder really WAS caused by demonization, then there would be more reports of successful "healing" than of people being chased from Christ through the things done "for healing".
On a semi-related note (and a note definitely related toa recurrent topic of this thread), to say that an illness (even mental illness) is necessarily proof that the sufferring individual is in sin or demonized is unbiblical. The only things that are Biblically based along such lines is that a particular illness in a particular individual MAY relate to sins, it may have been made possible by sins, or it MIGHT involve a demon - but then again it might not because the existance of sin in the world at large is responsible for sickness and death.
So for example, a person who has diabetes might have made their diabetes possible by engaging in overeating or by sloth - but then again, they might just have diabetes. The same holds true for mental illness - it might be a sin, it might be a demon, then again, it might just be a mental illness. There is absolutely no Biblical basis for the commonly held belief that illness A is proof of sins X, Y & Z or demons 1, 2 & 3 - yet many healing ministries and ministers will swear that such is the case.
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RE: Mental Health Issues - One Stop Thread - 4/15/2006 11:13:03 PM
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pneumatikos1123
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quote:
ORIGINAL: womaninchrist
I suppose there's room for a bit of overlap in "symptoms" but it seems to me that if schizophrenia, MPD or any other disorder really WAS caused by demonization, then there would be more reports of successful "healing" than of people being chased from Christ through the things done "for healing".
On a semi-related note (and a note definitely related toa recurrent topic of this thread), to say that an illness (even mental illness) is necessarily proof that the sufferring individual is in sin or demonized is unbiblical. The only things that are Biblically based along such lines is that a particular illness in a particular individual MAY relate to sins, it may have been made possible by sins, or it MIGHT involve a demon - but then again it might not because the existance of sin in the world at large is responsible for sickness and death.
So for example, a person who has diabetes might have made their diabetes possible by engaging in overeating or by sloth - but then again, they might just have diabetes. The same holds true for mental illness - it might be a sin, it might be a demon, then again, it might just be a mental illness. There is absolutely no Biblical basis for the commonly held belief that illness A is proof of sins X, Y & Z or demons 1, 2 & 3 - yet many healing ministries and ministers will swear that such is the case.
I totally agree. You'd think that in New Testament times, since they obviously didn't have a diagnosis for things like this, that at least SOME of what they called demonized had to be mental illness. I know that historians are pretty sure the "falling sickness" was epilepsy. Jesus was able to heal anything he wanted to, though. Since it stands to reason that either mental illness didn't come into existence until psychology came up with it, or it did and was called something else, that it existed and was probably healed as demonization. (or attempted to be healed, anyway). is it possible that the demonized individual who claimed he was possessed by "Legion", for instance, had MPD and since no official name for it existed, Jesus called it a demon and cast it out?
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RE: Mental Health Issues - One Stop Thread - 4/15/2006 11:32:02 PM
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womaninchrist
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Hmm. I've never thought of the man possessed by Legion. All I know is that while most modern Christians automatically assume that if someone has a mental illness they absolutely MUST be demonized (or at the very least unsaved) the people most likely to be mentioned as having a mental illness based on the records of their lives as stated in the Bible are David (said to be bipolar) and several of the prophets are said to be either bipolar or to have some form of schizo (and let's face it, what meets the Biblical definitions of prophecy would also easily meet the DSM's definitions of psychosis). With my passing understanding of psychiatry (picked up as a thoroughly non-professional as a tool to protect myself against a few particularly quackish providers) I'd tend to say that these post-humous diagnoses do carry a certain level of possibility - or even probability.
Oddly enough, it's only Christianity that I've seen automatically assume that someone who's mentally ill must have a spiritual problem. The other religions I'm familiar with (mostly various Native American or Central American religions) only assume that the person has access to a spiritual plane that most can't contact - and wait to see what they say and do before determining if they're involved with things of darkness (few such religions seem to use the word evil).
That bit, combined with the common assessment that many of the Men of God of the Old Testament had signs of mental illness leaves me to wonder if, perhaps, modern Christianity is going about this all wrong with the assumptions of sin and demonization.
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RE: Mental Health Issues - One Stop Thread - 4/16/2006 7:00:53 AM
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Giulia
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From: Giulia
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quote:
If they stop taking Pharmnaceuticals I will pray for them and I will encourage them to pray and God WILL deliver them. Will you say that HE won't?
Would you rather be medicated or delivered?
I was still on drugs when I got delivered. Christ delivered and healed me totally but He didn't require I get off drugs first because He meets you where you are. He doesn't give any rules regulations or prerequisites for healing He can work through the meds because He is far Mightier, then the process of healing will begin.
_____________________________
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RE: Mental Health Issues - One Stop Thread - 4/16/2006 3:39:22 PM
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peaceful2
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quote:
I will never offer any support to NAMI after some of the things I've seen them do (like advocate for the forced medication of ALL people with mental illness). I will especially not seek support through their groups after the number of times I've been blasted (in person, and on the phone) for letting it slip that I'm an actively practicing Christian. Sad to say, the anti-treatment diatribe of some recent posters in this thread is much closer to supportive than some of the "support" I've gotten through NAMI after letting it be known what religion I practice. I long ago learned that if I must deal with NAMI to keep my Christianity VERY quiet so on the rare occasions that I venture into NAMI's forums, I rigidly avoid their ones about religion and mental illness.
I've never personally seen this with NAMI here in OH. In fact, most of their meetings are held in churches.  Most of the officers are Christians and most of the support comes through local churches. Weird.
quote:
And while I'll admit that I'm one of Crosswalk's handful of Pentecostals, most stories I've heard of seeking healing from a mental illness through the church is a horror story. Usually involving being ordered off meds (without any reason to even suspect healing), being ordered to stay off meds once they're stopped (often with something mumbled about lack of faith or being contrary to God - or even that meds block healing - oddly enough, insulin use wouldn't block healing of diabetes), getting forced to do all sorts of ritualistic spiritual practices (fasts, specific prayers, meditation on specified Scriptures, etc.), and often a deliverance service. So while I don't know anyone who's been healed of a mental illness, I do know many who've been scared away from the church by the things done supposedly to heal a mental illness or who've been turned away from the church because a mental illness is said to be undeniable proof that the person is in some sort of condition that prevents salvation.
I've seen this too in various churches. It's very sad.
quote:
This whole issue is a classic example of where a middle ground needs to be found. Psychiatry and psychology need to respect the faith of the patient, and integrate it into the treatment process, working with not against a patient's spiritual belief system. And Christians need to recognize the value of medical science and antidepressants, and realize mental illness is just that--a disease that medicine has a legitimate role in treating.
Exactly. I'm not sure if you know any professional LPCCs or LISWs etc but in their ethics of how they practice it includes a section on respecting and working with a person's faith. In fact, anytime I've gone to a new office with my daughter, there is a question on the forms if you want that to be a part of therapy/counseling.
quote:
I was still on drugs when I got delivered. Christ delivered and healed me totally but He didn't require I get off drugs first because He meets you where you are. He doesn't give any rules regulations or prerequisites for healing He can work through the meds because He is far Mightier, then the process of healing will begin.
Excellent point. God bless!
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RE: Mental Health Issues - One Stop Thread - 4/16/2006 4:18:48 PM
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womaninchrist
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My experience with NAMI people being anti-christian could easily be a local/regional thing. The west coast, especially the more urban parts and certain not-so-urban parts tend to be into pagan or wiccan and often with an anti-christian bias thrown in. But I have repeatedly gone through experiences akin to a witch hunt or inquisition when my Christianity became known. Often enough that my religion is now only mentioned among the mentally ill in safe places where all are assumed Christian - and I've been burned enough by Christians that I've learned to be painfully careful which Christians get to learn of my real identity and my mental illness. But until you mentioned your experience on OH, I'd never heard of a Christian in NAMI. Everyone out this way who's told me of their religion was pagan or wiccan.
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RE: Mental Health Issues - One Stop Thread - 4/17/2006 9:53:24 AM
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jgr8estme77
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Is it possible to be depressed but not feel depressed all the time?
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RE: Mental Health Issues - One Stop Thread - 4/17/2006 1:57:44 PM
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agapetos
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mark77
Is it possible to be depressed but not feel depressed all the time?
'Blue' days (bad days) are pretty normal. Nearly everyone (to be honest I'd say everyone) has them at some point. How long are you talking about ~ days, weeks, months?
_____________________________
Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit.
Wisdom is not using them in fruit salads!
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RE: Mental Health Issues - One Stop Thread - 4/17/2006 2:02:18 PM
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jgr8estme77
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Days at a time for more years than I can remember.
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RE: Mental Health Issues - One Stop Thread - 4/17/2006 2:34:07 PM
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agapetos
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If you feel that you are depressed more than you are 'normal' it may be worth you seeing your doc. Get a good check up ~ there are some conditions that can cause depression and once treated you'll be fine.
Think about the reasons why you are depressed ~ home life, work, spiritual life, maybe even something that you've asked forgiveness for but don't see how God could possibly forgive, some past event in your life that caused you trauma (even if it seems trivial to others).
A course of anti-depressants may help. Or therapy of some kind ~ perhaps cognitive behaviour therapy. With anit-depressants you have to remember that they won't take away the reason for the depression ~ but they may help you see things a bit clearer and give you a better understanding of what is causing the depression and therefore how to live with it. Therapy will help you 'train' your mind into thinking differently about things. Sometimes it's useful to take meds while going through therapy as it (therapy) can make you feel worse before you feel better.
Whatever you do, please work with the doc and follow their advice. If you go the meds route then take as prescribed and get back to the doc with any problems. Not all meds work for all people. Sometimes it takes trying more than one med before you feel any different. And it generally takes a few weeks for them to kick in and side effects to wear off. Again, if you do decide to go this route then talk to your doc before coming off them ~ coming off them needs to be monitored as much as going on them.
_____________________________
Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit.
Wisdom is not using them in fruit salads!
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RE: Mental Health Issues - One Stop Thread - 4/18/2006 1:06:30 AM
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abcd123
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quote:
Is it possible to be depressed but not feel depressed all the time?
Yup. I've had issues with in since about a year ago, and didn't know it until after that. I was definatley not happy, but for much of the time was never in a place that I'd describe as "depressed feeling". Even though I could be termed as being in a "Severe Depression" at times, I was never truly suicidal. Only by the grace of God. The things I noticed most was exhaustion, being indecisive, having severe issues sleeping. Eventually it got so bad things were so completly blurred and my perception was totally off I thought I was losing my mind. I basically shut down.
Unlike so many others, I didn't take the prescription medicine route, or even one including therapy (not that I'm against that, or even drugs - I just know and have seen horrible negative effects when doctors mess up terribly). My family & I decided to take the homeopathic route (so many supplements it's not even funny, etc.). It's taken longer, and been more work and harder than "popping a pill every day." I was skeptical at first to say the least but had significant reason NOT to go on antidepressants (a very long story...). With time, I believe I'm better off than I would've been, and I'm so thankful.
My point was to say, it can be like nothing anyone has ever imagined. And there are other ways than prescription drugs - especially if someone is on antidepressants for years and years.
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RE: Mental Health Issues - One Stop Thread - 4/18/2006 8:31:14 AM
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stateofgrace
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A few weeks ago, I was describing my state as when the triggers hit, I get depressed for a short time, but then I bounce back quickly. Sounded really good, didn't it? Like I'd mostly overcome.
I was so, so very wrong, and the Lord had to hit me over the head to show me the deception I was laboring under. What I was interpreting as a stable mood was actually just being in a numb state. I wasn't healed of depression, far from it. I was in denial of what was happening.
I was trying to do the "right things" - exercise, seeing a counselor who is Christian, involvement in a depression support group at church.
But several significant triggers pushed me deeper into a depressive state.
For me, the "depressed feelings" come and go. The physical symptoms are more of a clue as to what's going on. Feeling like everything is in slow motion (I call it "walking through jello"). Minor body aches like everywhere. Difficulty concentrating and making decisions. Physical restlessness. Not wanting to get out of bed in the morning (feeling like you're hit with a ton of bricks when you wake up). And sleeping problems. I was waking up like 5 times a night.
I did go back and see my doctor, and I'm trying a new medicine for the depression (so far, so good) and some sleep medication. I'm sleeping much better and my overall mood has improved. Despite a very stressful weekend, I held it together pretty well (and LOL, this included a shopping excursioin with a bipolar person in my extended family who, unbenknownst to me when I left to go shopping, was experincing a pretty significant bought of mania - yep, I was praying pretty hard that the trip would finally conclude and we'd get back).
< Message edited by stateofgrace -- 4/18/2006 1:35:46 PM >
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RE: Mental Health Issues - One Stop Thread - 4/18/2006 12:07:43 PM
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agapetos
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quote:
Even though I could be termed as being in a "Severe Depression" at times, I was never truly suicidal. You don't have to be suicidal to have severe depression.
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Wisdom is not using them in fruit salads!
My blog
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RE: Mental Health Issues - One Stop Thread - 4/18/2006 1:57:29 PM
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abcd123
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quote:
quote:
Even though I could be termed as being in a "Severe Depression" at times, I was never truly suicidal.
You don't have to be suicidal to have severe depression.
I realize that. It's what I said. It's what happened to me. If it caused any confusion, I apologize. I don't think someone has to be suicidal to be termed severely depressed, and I KNOW from experience that it is not like that. What I meant was that I think it's amazing (and probably God's doing) that I was not suicidal considering how deeply depressed I was AND considering my situation (because I know what happened to me and how desperate I was for an escape, NOT that I assume being suicidal is a part of all deep depressions).
I'm also not saying that those people whose symptoms include suicidal thinking/tendancies don't have God's help.
For further clarity, I'm not saying I believe my choice of treatment is the only right way. I don't want anyone to get the impression that I want to beat my beliefs about treatment over peoples' heads until they agree with me. The choice to use homepathic medicine (and neuroscience) came after watching someone close to me for many years suffer the effects of antidepressants gone horribly wrong and seeing the effectiveness of homeopathic treatment in dealing with her illness. Finally, after years of ups and downs, she was better than she had been in years after geting off all prescriptions - we couldn't remember a time when she was doing so well.
I also realize not everyone will have the negative reactions to antidepressant medications that I have witnessed and that not all doctors are inept. The person I was referring to earlier has been termed "chemically sensitive" and has been told she should probably avoid most prescription medications, no matter what for. While she is very sensitive, I also believe it goes both ways - that the reactions the meds caused have a part to play in her current sensitivites. But we'll never know for sure.
Sorry this got so long, and hopefully THIS post is clear...I really should stop posting so late at night (yesterdays post was written laaaate!)
<Edited to add more>
< Message edited by valentine0214 -- 4/18/2006 2:14:38 PM >
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RE: Mental Health Issues - One Stop Thread - 4/18/2006 2:12:34 PM
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abcd123
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Good...that's the last thing I want to come across as!
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Mine is linked to my hypothyroidism. And I am able to manage mine without medication (apart from the thyroxine - I mean I manage mine without anti-depressants). My depression is part of me, I just learn to deal with the waves when they come.
