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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/4/2005 10:41:53 PM
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is5512
Posts: 198
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From: stuck out here in paradise
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quote:
ORIGINAL: figmentPez
quote:
"This is my Bible. I am who it says I am. I have what it says I have. I can do what it says I can do." Objections?
Yup. I'd much rather it be "This is God's message. I am who He says I am. I have what He says I have. I can do what He says I can do." ...
ummm, if I said that at least in my eyes the two were interchangeable (meaning I accepted your re-write without reservation) could we use that as a basis for agreement? And of course, I would use that to wander off in the direction, "Well the Bible/God's message shows several times that I'm entitled to Shalom, and my disbelief/lack of faith keeps me from it..." etc. Would we still be in agreement?
_____________________________
Tales From The Dog House
The Back Seat - A (W-o-F) Safe Place
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/4/2005 10:47:50 PM
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is5512
Posts: 198
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From: stuck out here in paradise
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AQuietPlace
To the detracting comments about Osteen & his ministry, I'm wondering if some of you making those posts should be checking out..."
Dude! If you're going to resort to "reason," then I just don't know anymore.....
btw, Z3:17 is an awesome scripture
_____________________________
Tales From The Dog House
The Back Seat - A (W-o-F) Safe Place
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/4/2005 10:54:38 PM
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figmentPez
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quote:
ummm, if I said that at least in my eyes the two were interchangeable (meaning I accepted your re-write without reservation) could we use that as a basis for agreement? And of course, I would use that to wander off in the direction, "Well the Bible/God's message shows several times that I'm entitled to Shalom, and my disbelief/lack of faith keeps me from it..." etc. Would we still be in agreement?
Only if you really think that the bound peices of printed paper you hold in your hand are the living breathing God would I agree that the two are interchangable, and honestly I have no idea what direction you wandered off in with "Shalom" and your lack of faith keeping you from it. The problem I have with this not that the underlying theology is wrong, it's that it's not focused enough, in my mind, for a creed that is repeated so often. While someone who knows what they're actually professing may get it right, I think that many people in the audience are going to fail to see the God behind the book. Read Hebrews chapter eleven, the hall of faith as some have called it, all those people believed God, and their faith was credited to them as righteousness, but "none of them received what had been promised". They had faith anyway, not because of a book of promises, and indeed some of them had seen sights greater than a mere book, but because of the Living God who was the focus of their faith. If we try to have faith in the promises of a book, we only set ourselves up for dissapointment if they aren't fulfilled the way we expect them to. If we, however, have faith in the Living God, Jesus Christ, then our relationship with him will be able to weather the storms that come, even when our lives are not what we want them to be, because they will be what he wants them to be.
<Edit is in italics>
< Message edited by figmentPez -- 5/4/2005 10:56:49 PM >
_____________________________
I make this challenge to all Christians:
Read Daniel 7:13-14
And tell me: Who do you say that the Son of Man is?
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/4/2005 11:18:10 PM
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is5512
Posts: 198
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quote:
ORIGINAL: figmentPez
quote:
ummm, if I said that at least in my eyes the two were interchangeable (meaning I accepted your re-write without reservation) could we use that as a basis for agreement? And of course, I would use that to wander off in the direction, "Well the Bible/God's message shows several times that I'm entitled to Shalom, and my disbelief/lack of faith keeps me from it..." etc. Would we still be in agreement?
Only if you really think that the bound peices of printed paper you hold in your hand are the living breathing God would I agree that the two are interchangable, ........If we try to have faith in the promises of a book, we only set ourselves up for dissapointment if they aren't fulfilled the way we expect them to. If we, however, have faith in the Living God, Jesus Christ, then our relationship with him will be able to weather the storms that come, even when our lives are not what we want them to be, because they will be what he wants them to be.
<Edit is in italics>
Gee, thanks for actually forcing me to think about a new concept! It would be insulting to you for me to respond without chewing this one over. Do I understand your position correctly that the words of the Bible (o-k, even indivudual sentences or paragraphs) cannot all be taken literally without the full understanding of the Spirit of the whole of the Bible? Yeah, let me get back to you on that one.
And to clarify some of my poorly worded points:
Shalom - wanted to stay as close as I could to the Osteen part of the thread and not wander too far off into a WOF defense. Have heard Shalom defined as "the state of Nothing Missing Nothing Broken." And that lack of faith prevents the manifestation of the blessings.
_____________________________
Tales From The Dog House
The Back Seat - A (W-o-F) Safe Place
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/4/2005 11:45:12 PM
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AQuietPlace
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quote:
ORIGINAL: is5512
quote:
ORIGINAL: AQuietPlace
To the detracting comments about Osteen & his ministry, I'm wondering if some of you making those posts should be checking out..."
Dude! If you're going to resort to "reason," then I just don't know anymore.....
btw, Z3:17 is an awesome scripture
Thanks for your support. Having been just "edited" (which kind of felt like "spanked"), it was nice to get your feedback. btw, the sentiment that was edited was my suggestion that sometimes we christians, like the rest of the world, just can't handle the success of others very well. (more bluntly put originally)
re: Z3:17, I'm doing a study on the entire book and noticed that particular verse which I'm taking a closer look at, in particular. Any input on Zeph would be welcomed.
_____________________________
Zephaniah 3.17
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/5/2005 12:34:01 AM
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is5512
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AQuietPlace
btw, the sentiment that was edited was my suggestion that sometimes we christians, like the rest of the world, just can't handle the success of others very well. (more bluntly put originally)
re: Z3:17, I'm doing a study on the entire book and noticed that particular verse which I'm taking a closer look at, in particular. Any input on Zeph would be welcomed.
To me, "can't handle the success of others" traces back to what I hope is not a horrible misinterpretation of Hebrews 12: (14 and) 15. My study of the original (and hey, I've got a high school diploma and a CDL-A, so how tough can Greek be?) translates "The root of bitterness is believing that God cannot or refuses to bless you enough." And, oddly WOF/prosperity teachings make me completely at peace with my financial situation (dead broke). I see somebody successful and I'm all Psalm 35:27 about it. And since His intention is to bless me with exceedingly abundantly more than I could ask or imagine (and I got one great imagination), what could I possibly allow myself to get upset about?
Input on Zeph? I'd be content to be able to spell it without looking in The Book.
_____________________________
Tales From The Dog House
The Back Seat - A (W-o-F) Safe Place
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/5/2005 9:13:26 AM
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charityagape
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quote:
Only if you really think that the bound peices of printed paper you hold in your hand are the living breathing God would I agree that the two are interchangable, and honestly I have no idea what direction you wandered off in with "Shalom" and your lack of faith keeping you from it. The problem I have with this not that the underlying theology is wrong, it's that it's not focused enough, in my mind, for a creed that is repeated so often. While someone who knows what they're actually professing may get it right, I think that many people in the audience are going to fail to see the God behind the book. Read Hebrews chapter eleven, the hall of faith as some have called it, all those people believed God, and their faith was credited to them as righteousness, but "none of them received what had been promised". They had faith anyway, not because of a book of promises, and indeed some of them had seen sights greater than a mere book, but because of the Living God who was the focus of their faith. If we try to have faith in the promises of a book, we only set ourselves up for dissapointment if they aren't fulfilled the way we expect them to. If we, however, have faith in the Living God, Jesus Christ, then our relationship with him will be able to weather the storms that come, even when our lives are not what we want them to be, because they will be what he wants them to be.
I doubt you intended this, but this paragraph seems to take God's word lightly.
Jesus quoted scripture constantly. And is even referred to as the word.
And in 2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God........ The word inspiration there in the Greek is theopneustos literally means God-breathed, its the picture of God breathing or emitting His own substance into something. The Bible is not a mere book of promises. Joel's teachings are biblical and there's nothing wrong with them.
< Message edited by charityagape -- 5/5/2005 9:20:32 AM >
_____________________________
1 Corinthians 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/5/2005 9:33:05 AM
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figmentPez
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quote:
I doubt you intended this, but this paragraph seems to take God's word lightly.
Is God's word the printed words on the page, or is God's word his message to us? Is the Bible's value that of a book, or is it's value based on the God who gave it to us? I say these things not to degrade scripture, for indeed it is the truth and inspired by God. I say these things because God is the source of the Bible, not the other way around. The Holy Spirit gives us knowledge of God, working through what has been written, the words alone are of far less value without Spiritual insight. The promises in the Bible are worthless without the Living God to back them up.
You highlighted part of this line "Only if you really think that the bound peices of printed paper you hold in your hand are the living breathing God would I agree that the two are interchangable,". Do you really think that when you hold a Bible in your hand you are holding God himself? Do you think that all of God is contained in scripture? Not even all of Jesus's time on earth is recorded in the Bible. John 21:25 "Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written." If the totality of the Son can't be contained in the Bible, or indeed can't be contained if the world were filled with books of what he did while on earth, how can all of God, the Father and Holy Spirit as well, all they do be contained in pages printed by men?
_____________________________
I make this challenge to all Christians:
Read Daniel 7:13-14
And tell me: Who do you say that the Son of Man is?
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/5/2005 9:36:13 AM
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figmentPez
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quote:
Joel's teachings are biblical and there's nothing wrong with them.
I'd beg to differ. The one Sunday morning I decided to give him a listen, the first "teaching" he started his sermon off with was "Nothing is more powerful than your will". Not once did he give God credit for being more powerful than we are. He spent the whole sermon talking about how important we little humans are, and how powerful we are. He even quoted the non-Biblical, "God helps those who help themselves". I can't speak for what his church teaches in classes beyond the pulpit, but what I've heard him speak on television is shallow "christianity".
_____________________________
I make this challenge to all Christians:
Read Daniel 7:13-14
And tell me: Who do you say that the Son of Man is?
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/5/2005 11:12:14 AM
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okie
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Name it, Claim it. A popular message for a materialistic world. People eat it up. God blesses us with spiritual gifts not material ones. I don't see how one can study the bible and consider worldly things as blessings. We are told constantly throughout the Bible that these things are worthless. Why would God give an empty blessing?
They tell us "God wants you to have your hearts desire here on earth."
For every verse they twist to hint at supporting this there are 10 that plainly speak against it.
I think Joel is a gifted speaker who has the ability to grab someones attention and introduce them to Christ.
Like all of us he could use a little more spirit and a little less world. Pray for him.
_____________________________
I give you peace, the kind of peace that only I can give. It isn't like the peace that this world can give. So don't be worried or afraid.
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/5/2005 12:37:37 PM
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Soxfan
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Osteen is a word faith teacher and word faith is not Christian teaching but a distortion of Scripture
“Many of you today know this, you believe it down here in your heart. But the reason that your not experiencing as much as you should is because your not declaring it. You've got to give life to your faith by speaking it out. Your words have creative power. When you go around saying, 'I have favor, people want to be good to me and supernatural doors are opening.' When you make those declarations of faith, you are charging the atmosphere. And your own words can help to bring it to pass. That is why we should get into the habit of every day consistently speaking God's favor over our lives” (Joel Osteen, “Experiencing More Of God's Favor,” Tape # 212, Daystar, July 10, 2004)
Here’s how he explains it “You can cancel out God's plan by speaking negative words. God works by laws” (Joel Osteen, “Speaking Faith Filled Words,” Tape # 223. Daystar Television, May 2, 2004)
This is what Kenneth Copeland and the word faith movement is about and it is wrong
“Your circumstances will line up with your words.” “Words are like seeds, they have creative power.” “The more you talk about it the more you call it in.” “Your words will give life to what you are saying.” “You can change your world by simply changing your words.” “You can use your words to bless your life or curse your life”(Joel Osteen, “Speaking Faith Filled Words,” Tape # 223. Daystar Television, May 2, 2004)
This is no different than the new age movements teachings on decreeing.
“Start calling in victory. Start calling in divine health. Start calling in abundance. You can prophesize your future.” “If you wanna know where you'll be five years from now listen to what you are saying.” “Our words will become a self-fulfilling prophecy.” “With our words we can predict our future. We can prophesize our future”(Joel Osteen, “Speaking Faith Filled Words,” Tape # 223. Daystar Television, May 2, 2004)
Again a new age teaching that we can change reality by our words of affirmations and decreeing.
“You may have sickness in your body, you need to call in health. You may be in debt, you need to boldly say that you are the head and not the tail.”(Joel Osteen, “Speaking Faith Filled Words,” Tape # 223. Daystar Television, May 2, 2004)
This again is word faith theology that what you speak you can have. Nowhere in the New Testament is the church taught this. The teaching that we are the “head and not the tail” is also misapplied by word faith teachers who do not keep the context of when it was said and to whom. Instead, they rush through the Bible and pick out what they can positively confess.
Faith and fear as a force comes right out of the word faith camp of people like Kenneth Copeland and his disciple Creflo Dollar; Osteen says, “Fear is a force just like faith is a force. If you give into fear and start to dwell on that junk and start to act on it, that fear can actually bring things to pass just like faith can bring things to pass. Job said, 'the thing I greatly feared came upon me.' Fear is a force just like faith is a force. If you give into fear and start to dwell on that junk and start to act on it, that fear can actually bring things to pass just like faith can bring things to pass. Job said, 'the thing I greatly feared came upon me.” (Joel Osteen, Sermon, VL-007, April 30, 2000, Sermon on Website, May 2004)
To misuse Job of whom God said was a righteous man, a man whom God challenged Satan (Job.1: 8) through shows immaturity in understanding Scripture. Job is expressing something he had in his heart, that he would die in such agony “Who long for death, but it does not come” (Job 3:21). Not that he confessed this and it came to pass. We should stay far away from people that cannot understand the mechanics of standing up for God and doing what is right and the spiritual warfare the ensues from it. (Job.1:1, 8-10 2:4-7).
Osteen knows what he is saying and where it originates from “And sometimes in the faith movement or in the Full Gospel movement, we hit a sticking point. We get God’s promises in our heart. We pray God’s word. We believe God’s word and then we sit back and we cross our arms and fold our legs.” (Joel Osteen, Sermon, “Do all you can to Make your Dreams Come True,” May 2, 1999).
What Jesus is being Preached?
All these teachings add up to a non biblical framework he is speaking from. But the most horrendous and most dangerous is the teaching of Jesus being taken captive in Hell by Satan. Kenneth Copeland, Jesse Duplantis, Creflo Dollar, Joyce Meyers and many other popular TV ministers all hold to this heresy. And so does Joel Osteen...
He accepts the word faith heresy “The Bible indicates that for three days, Jesus went into the very depths of hell. Right into the enemy's own territory. And He did battle with Satan face to face. Can you imagine what a show down that was?” (Joel Osteen, Sermon, CS-002 - April 23, 2000)
Lets look at a good portion of the sermon, so that we know this quote was not taken out of context.
“And the third thing, because of all of what Jesus accomplished in the Resurrection; you and I have power and authority over the devil and demon forces. I can imagine when Jesus bowed His head and died on that cross, that Satan and all those demons they gathered in Hell for a great victory celebration. I can imagine it looked something like the victory party in the locker room after the Super Bowl. You can see them giving high five's and jumping around. Shouting with great excitement, We did it! We did it! I told you we could defeat Him! Now we're in control. Now we can do whatever we want. And can't you hear Satan laugh sarcastically and say to his demons, Aren't you glad you followed me now? Aren't you glad you revolted out of the heavens? I told you it'd be worth it.
“Can't you see Jesus looking right into Satan's eyes and saying, “Satan, I hate to spoil your victory party, but I think you're celebrating a little bit too soon”? You may have knocked me down, but you sure didn't knock me out. And it's not over until I say it's over. Satan says, Listen, Jesus, you're on my turf now. You don't have a chance down here. You're surrounded by my demons. We're going to tear you apart. And Jesus just smiles and says, “Go ahead, Satan, make my day!” (Congregation applauds) Jesus says, “Look, Satan, I'm down here to take care of business. I'm ready to do battle. I don't want to be here any longer than I have to be because it stinks down here.”
“The Bible indicates that for three days, Jesus went into the very depths of hell. Right into the enemy's own territory. And He did battle with Satan face to face. Can you imagine what a show down that was? It was good vs. evil. Right vs. wrong. Holiness vs. filth. Here are the two most powerful forces in the universe have come together to do battle for the first time in history. But thank God. The Bible says, “Satan was no match for our Champion”. This was no contest. (Congregation applauds).
“Jesus crushed Satan's head with His foot. He bruised his head. And He once and for all, forever defeated and dethroned and demoralized our enemy. One translation says, “He paralyzed him and rendered him powerless”. But thank God. He didn't even stop there. He went over and ripped the keys of death and hell out of Satan's hands. And He grabbed Satan by the nap of his neck and He began to slowly drag him down through the corridors of Hell. All beat up and bruised because He wanted to make sure that every single demon saw very clearly that Jesus was indeed the undisputed Champion of all time! Amen?”(Joel Osteen, Sermon, CS-002 - April 23, 2000, Sermon Is Posted At His Website, May 2004)
Imagine is right, because this is not what happened. How can we know? The Bible tells us so. For this heresy we need to take the time to explain the biblical position so no one is left thinking that what Osteen has done does not affect the gospel, this same gospel that Satan hates and wants to corrupt. Osteen does not come out and say what others do- that Jesus became sin on the cross but the implication is evident by his going to hell under Satan’s jurisdiction. Hebrews 9:14 tells us that he offered himself “without blemish to God” Paul wrote of Christ’s “offering and sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma” (Ephesians 5:2). Sin is not a beautiful aroma to God.
Jesus went into Hades, where the faithful were, not hell, where the wicked are punished. The word of faith teacher’s do not believe in his victory the on the cross but that it was not completed on the cross but in a battle in hell with the devil. This imaginative battle actually brings destruction to the gospel where Jesus REALLY conquered Satan crushed Satan's head on the cross not in hell. Colossians 2:15: “Having disarmed principalities and powers, he made a public spectacle of them triumphing over them in it.” This victory happened on the cross (v.14), so what is Christ doing suffering in Hell by these same principalities and powers, as claimed. This doctrine is dangerous and affects many others. If Jesus went to hell, then Jesus did not speak the truth buy saying IT IS FINISHED. The death of Christ on the cross is then insufficient, not having the power by itself to save anyone and Paul could not have said what he said about it that he preached Christ crucified for salvation..
Neither does Scripture say “Jesus took the keys of hell and death from Satan.” This again is a false word faith teaching. Neither did Satan steal the keys from Adam as the word faith teachers espouse, because Adam did not have them.
Here’s what the Scripture says: Rev. 1:18: “I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death. Where does it say he took them? He possessed them. Again they go beyond what is written with their imagination and make this up. This is a great Bible myth. In Rev. 1:18 The word is Hades, not hell; the key is the emblem of power and authority. Christ can both save and destroy, can kill and make alive. Just as Jesus said that no man takes his life from him, he lays it down himself. Death is still under his dominion, and he can recall the dead whenever he pleases. He is the resurrection and the life.
1 Corinthians 15:1-4: is that “Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again.” There is no details like these men have added with their fertile imaginations. It may make for good story telling but to cheer at this shows complete Biblical ignorance. Jesus said on the cross before He expired, “Father, into your hands I commit my Spirit” (Matthew 27:50; John 19:30). If he landed in Hell under Satan, than who is his Father in whom he committed his Spirit to? this is not a good picture, it mocks the most sacred time of Jesus' ministry, the very purpose Jesus the Son of God came to earth for.
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/5/2005 12:57:25 PM
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Soxfan
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quote:
How much time does he spend elevating "me" and making "my life better" in comparion to elevating God and the price of being a follower of Jesus Christ. (die to self, take up your Cross (your symbol of death)
I also pointed out to them that I don't like the way he does the 15 second closing of his program with the "if you want this" then just say this prayer with me!!!!!! Shallow understanding of salvation. Cheap grace is being handed out I fear.
This is called "Positive Confession" a major part of Word of Faith theology. Joel Osteen is so deep in WoF theology that it's almost scary that he has been able to decieve so many.
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/5/2005 2:27:55 PM
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JohnnyBulky
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Yeah, Soxfan!! If you've got something to say, why don't you just come out and say it?
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/5/2005 2:30:57 PM
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bzirk
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For the record: I have no opinion on Joel O'Steen. I have seen him once or twice for about 5 minutes each (maybe). I did see his old man preach a few times, and he seemed fine, but I really don't remember that much about it.
Has anyone read that article in my church mortgages thread that MartinfromOz posted? If not, you ought to read it.
_____________________________
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/5/2005 3:18:06 PM
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P31
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Thanks for the thread. I did not realize he was WoF. We don't have many of those in "real life" down here where I live. Most of us are just Methodist and Baptist!!!!
I will take back some of these quotes from JO and use them in class to compare his teachings to scripture!
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/5/2005 4:09:36 PM
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P31
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Yep I plan to do that also!!
In case you are wondering. This prints up 18 pages!!! My ink is shot... 
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/5/2005 8:59:57 PM
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CindyM
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quote:
ORIGINAL: is5512
Can't say I watch Joel, but just found out from someone who does that he starts out each program the same way his Dad used to. I will quote it here just to see if anyone has any fundamental objections to this specific doctrine: "This is my Bible. I am who it says I am. I have what it says I have. I can do what it says I can do." Objections?
I've briefly watched him, my first objection was that "memory phrase". Why not quote a verse from that Bible? I heard only one Bible verse tossed in at the end of his message. He sure seems so nice and meek and appealing, scary.
< Message edited by CindyM -- 5/5/2005 9:15:58 PM >
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Cindy
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/5/2005 10:04:39 PM
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is5512
Posts: 198
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From: stuck out here in paradise
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CindyM
quote:
ORIGINAL: is5512
Can't say I watch Joel, but just found out from someone who does that he starts out each program the same way his Dad used to. I will quote it here just to see if anyone has any fundamental objections to this specific doctrine: "This is my Bible. I am who it says I am. I have what it says I have. I can do what it says I can do." Objections?
I've briefly watched him, my first objection was that "memory phrase". Why not quote a verse from that Bible? I heard only one Bible verse tossed in at the end of his message. He sure seems so nice and meek and appealing, scary.
Hi! Before I go any further, I want to refer you to post 53 by figmentPez. His (her?) views are different from mine on the "memory phrase," but it's such a thought provoking argument, it's worth keeping in mind. O-k, my side: I once heard a WoF preacher say he was appealing to God one day (must have been an informal conversation..pleeeease, no attacks on that from anybody just yet) and said, "I didn't write this stuff in the Bible, You did. So you must have meant for me to take it seriously." Joel Osteen's father, a Baptist preacher, had a deathly sick child. Everything he'd learned in seminary told him, "Maybe God will heal the child, maybe He won't. Depends on what fickle mood has Him at any given moment." He found some scriptural promises of healing, out of desperation he tried them, and the child recovered. Papa Osteen (John) was promptly put on trial for heresy. He beat the rap, but was disgusted enough that he left the denomination. I would imagine starting each of his sermons with the memory phrase was to continually remind him and his flock, "This isn't about what makes sense to us. This is what we can see in black-and-white...or red-and-white." Joel, God love him, ain't Daddy. But I'm pleased with the foundation he was given, and that he kept part of it.
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Tales From The Dog House
The Back Seat - A (W-o-F) Safe Place
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/5/2005 10:38:44 PM
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charityagape
Posts: 25
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Cisco Texas
Status: offline
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Excellent Post Is. God means what He says and says what He means and its all in His word.
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1 Corinthians 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/6/2005 8:20:41 AM
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JohnnyBulky
Posts: 12
Joined: 4/28/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: is5512
Everything he'd learned in seminary told him, "Maybe God will heal the child, maybe He won't. Depends on what fickle mood has Him at any given moment." This ain't the Sean Hannity forum. Using false statements to support your opinion won't get you very far on this forum.
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/6/2005 9:33:11 AM
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is5512
Posts: 198
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: stuck out here in paradise
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JohnnyBulky
quote:
ORIGINAL: is5512
Everything he'd learned in seminary told him, "Maybe God will heal the child, maybe He won't. Depends on what fickle mood has Him at any given moment." This ain't the Sean Hannity forum. Using false statements to support your opinion won't get you very far on this forum.
ummm, beg pardon, bro. in this particular instance, the quote was to represent what was going thru John Osteen's mind...and before you ask: no, i don't have the gift of mind-reading historical figures :)
but, you do bring up a point maybe we can discuss in another thread: when i grew up, rock and roll was "the devil's music." (since i've seen your posts regarding Christian Blues, i imagine you and i agree how that might not be the smartest position ever take | | |
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