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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/15/2008 3:17:27 AM
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Ephesians4_32
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quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
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ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
However, whether or not they are believers or unbelievers, the point of the verse is that Christ died for everyone, effectively purchasing eternal life as a free gift for everyone.
Are we looking at the same verse?
2 Peter 2
1But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
That's the verse I am commenting on. How do you view the "false teachers"; as believers or unbelievers?
They can't be believers because they are false teachers.
Romans 8
9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
What happens when we have God's spirit in us?
Ezekiel 26
And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Then who is the verse referencing as once being boughten?
Bought with the blood of Christ or bought from slavery in Egypt?
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/15/2008 8:24:20 AM
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FreeGrace
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
Bought with the blood of Christ or bought from slavery in Egypt?
Why do you bring up slavery in Egypt? Where is that in the text? The issue is false teachers who deny the sovereign Lord who bought them. The same Greek word is used to describe believers in 1 Cor 6:20 and 7:23. The issue is bought by Christ.
btw, who was "bought from slavery in Egypt"? The Jews weren't bought from slavery. Pharaoh let them go. In fact, they were given riches before they went. If anyting, they were given their freedom, and paid for their services.
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/15/2008 9:14:53 AM
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Ephesians4_32
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Exodus 15
13Thou in thy mercy hast led forth the people which thou hast redeemed: thou hast guided them in thy strength unto thy holy habitation.
It was God Who redeemed the Israelites from Egypt. The Israelites had been in Egyptian bondage for nearly a century. Remember the parting of the Red Sea?
2 Samuel 7
23And what one nation in the earth is like thy people, even like Israel, whom God went to redeem for a people to himself, and to make him a name, and to do for you great things and terrible, for thy land, before thy people, which thou redeemedst to thee from Egypt, from the nations and their gods?
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/15/2008 3:36:57 PM
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abu_khomar
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why would u think this would be in any way referencing Egypt given the context? Just look at the verse.
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/15/2008 5:38:34 PM
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wacotton
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These three passages are clear warnings to believers about the danger of falling away.
Luke 12:46 speaks of having "his portion with the unbelievers" and we know where they will end up.
Romans 11 speaks of being "cut off" if we don't continue in His goodness.
Hebrews 10 speaks of one who was "sancitified by the blood of the covenant" suffering a worse punishment than those who died without mercy under the law of Moses.
Luke 12:45-46
45.But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
46.The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
Romans 11:20-22
20.Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21.For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22.Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off .
Hebrews 10:25-29
25.Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching .
26.For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27.But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28.He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29.Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye , shall he be thought worthy , who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified , an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
_____________________________
Bill Cotton
2 Corinthians 3:6
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/15/2008 5:41:52 PM
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JimboFletch
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For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
-2 Timothy 1:12
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/15/2008 5:48:12 PM
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FreeGrace
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
-2 Timothy 1:12
Amen, JF!
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/15/2008 6:46:41 PM
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Ephesians4_32
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quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
why would u think this would be in any way referencing Egypt given the context? Just look at the verse.
Because I don't know who these false teachers are.
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/15/2008 6:59:27 PM
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URForgiven
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I have to say I am astounded that ya'll could keep this discussion going as long as you have. It is truly a statement about the failure of Christians and Christianity in general to teach and pass on the truth. A sad statement.
When you know what salvation is, and when you know Who God is, then you know what 'security' is. Salvation is the receiving of life...eternal life. God is not a liar, if He says the life He gives is eternal, then it is eternal. Period. End of discussion. By definition eternal life is...ETERNAL.
There, I am glad I could clear this up for you all. I am sure you will all move on now that you know the truth.
Yeah right...
_____________________________
The sin of the world is unbelief.
"I am a Believer, it is impossible for me to be an unbeliever."
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/15/2008 9:22:23 PM
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abu_khomar
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
why would u think this would be in any way referencing Egypt given the context? Just look at the verse.
Because I don't know who these false teachers are.
its obvious it is people in the future.
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/15/2008 11:56:58 PM
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Ephesians4_32
Posts: 2306
Joined: 4/30/2005
From: The Crossroads of America
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quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
why would u think this would be in any way referencing Egypt given the context? Just look at the verse.
Because I don't know who these false teachers are.
its obvious it is people in the future.
People in the future could be of the house of Israel.
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/16/2008 9:50:15 AM
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abu_khomar
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
why would u think this would be in any way referencing Egypt given the context? Just look at the verse.
Because I don't know who these false teachers are.
its obvious it is people in the future.
People in the future could be of the house of Israel.
The House of Israel...from egypt right? Seriously, Free Grace did a great job of showing you that it isnt not anything related to egypt in post 3327
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/16/2008 10:38:58 AM
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Ephesians4_32
Posts: 2306
Joined: 4/30/2005
From: The Crossroads of America
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quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
why would u think this would be in any way referencing Egypt given the context? Just look at the verse.
Because I don't know who these false teachers are.
its obvious it is people in the future.
People in the future could be of the house of Israel.
The House of Israel...from egypt right? Seriously, Free Grace did a great job of showing you that it isnt not anything related to egypt in post 3327
Where does the verse say that the false teachers are Gentiles?
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/16/2008 2:57:58 PM
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abu_khomar
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
why would u think this would be in any way referencing Egypt given the context? Just look at the verse.
Because I don't know who these false teachers are.
its obvious it is people in the future.
People in the future could be of the house of Israel.
The House of Israel...from egypt right? Seriously, Free Grace did a great job of showing you that it isnt not anything related to egypt in post 3327
Where does the verse say that the false teachers are Gentiles?
I dont understand why that is important. The important thing that you seem to be missing is that whoever they are, they appear to have been bought by the Lord at one point in time. As post 3327 indicates. This is referring to a future event, not an event that happened in the OT, nothing related to egypt, egypt isn't even mentioned.
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/16/2008 5:00:50 PM
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Ephesians4_32
Posts: 2306
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From: The Crossroads of America
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quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
why would u think this would be in any way referencing Egypt given the context? Just look at the verse.
Because I don't know who these false teachers are.
its obvious it is people in the future.
People in the future could be of the house of Israel.
The House of Israel...from egypt right? Seriously, Free Grace did a great job of showing you that it isnt not anything related to egypt in post 3327
Where does the verse say that the false teachers are Gentiles?
I dont understand why that is important. The important thing that you seem to be missing is that whoever they are, they appear to have been bought by the Lord at one point in time. As post 3327 indicates. This is referring to a future event, not an event that happened in the OT, nothing related to egypt, egypt isn't even mentioned.
It only matters because I want to understand the text. Are believers preaching false doctrine? Are Israelites in the church preaching false doctrine? Are true redeemed-with-the-blood Christians denying Christ? If the latter is true, does it mean that they will lose their salvation, or are they backsliders who will eventually repent and return to the Lord?
We don't have to be talking about the Old Testament. We have to identify the people who denied the Lord in the future. If they are Israelites, they were bought from slavery in Egypt. They could have also been bought with the blood of the Lamb, but that is not a given.
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/16/2008 6:28:42 PM
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abu_khomar
Posts: 97
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
why would u think this would be in any way referencing Egypt given the context? Just look at the verse.
Because I don't know who these false teachers are.
its obvious it is people in the future.
People in the future could be of the house of Israel.
The House of Israel...from egypt right? Seriously, Free Grace did a great job of showing you that it isnt not anything related to egypt in post 3327
Where does the verse say that the false teachers are Gentiles?
I dont understand why that is important. The important thing that you seem to be missing is that whoever they are, they appear to have been bought by the Lord at one point in time. As post 3327 indicates. This is referring to a future event, not an event that happened in the OT, nothing related to egypt, egypt isn't even mentioned.
It only matters because I want to understand the text. Are believers preaching false doctrine? Are Israelites in the church preaching false doctrine? Are true redeemed-with-the-blood Christians denying Christ? If the latter is true, does it mean that they will lose their salvation, or are they backsliders who will eventually repent and return to the Lord?
We don't have to be talking about the Old Testament. We have to identify the people who denied the Lord in the future. If they are Israelites, they were bought from slavery in Egypt. They could have also been bought with the blood of the Lamb, but that is not a given.
thanks for your reply ephesian, but what makes you think isrialites who were bought out of slavery in egypt were still alive when Paul wrote this gospel to the people at Ephesus? The verse tells you who was bought, but apparently at that time they were not teaching false doctrine, so one more time, who was bought, it has to be the people in the verse, who who was it?
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/17/2008 5:42:34 PM
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Ephesians4_32
Posts: 2306
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From: The Crossroads of America
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quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
thanks for your reply ephesian, but what makes you think isrialites who were bought out of slavery in egypt were still alive when Paul wrote this gospel to the people at Ephesus?
They weren't still alive, but their descendants are here today.
Psalm 106
21They forgat God their saviour, which had done great things in Egypt;
When did the Exodus take place and when were the following verses written?
Judges 10
11And the LORD said unto the children of Israel, Did not I deliver you from the Egyptians, and from the Amorites, from the children of Ammon, and from the Philistines?
1 Samuel 10
17And Samuel called the people together unto the LORD to Mizpeh;
18And said unto the children of Israel, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, I brought up Israel out of Egypt, and delivered you out of the hand of the Egyptians, and out of the hand of all kingdoms, and of them that oppressed you:
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 4/23/2008 6:05:43 PM
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abu_khomar
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
thanks for your reply ephesian, but what makes you think isrialites who were bought out of slavery in egypt were still alive when Paul wrote this gospel to the people at Ephesus?
They weren't still alive, but their descendants are here today.
Psalm 106
21They forgat God their saviour, which had done great things in Egypt;
When did the Exodus take place and when were the following verses written?
Judges 10
11And the LORD said unto the children of Israel, Did not I deliver you from the Egyptians, and from the Amorites, from the children of Ammon, and from the Philistines?
1 Samuel 10
17And Samuel called the people together unto the LORD to Mizpeh;
18And said unto the children of Israel, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, I brought up Israel out of Egypt, and delivered you out of the hand of the Egyptians, and out of the hand of all kingdoms, and of them that oppressed you:
Ephesians, what does any of this have to do at all with the verse at question?
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