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seriously - 6/8/2008 9:28:03 AM
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bentzsur
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why do most ministers stay away from the torah, unless they want you tithe. why focus on what Paul say's about the law(works) and avoid James in his view of this same issue.
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RE: seriously - 6/8/2008 9:51:54 AM
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BibleL7
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Part could be that many are told "This is a NEW TESTIMENT CHURCH" all they want to preach is Jesus is love it is very popular. Many brag on and live by the Romans road and many preachers only seem to know of the NT. Unless they come from a church that goes through entire Bible many don't do much on OT. Oh and as for tithes I usually only used Malachi on that. However I most enjoyed going into Genesis chapter by chapter had not gotten much further when church moved. Many churches and particularly main denoms only want to concentrate on Jesus and Paul the apostle to gentiles. Personally I first read the Bible cover to cover not starting with John then Paul's epistles which is how most said I should. Of course some seem to forget that Paul and the other 12 Apostles taught using the OT. The Law and Prophets. The sermon I preached when I was licensed was on the crucifixion using only one verse from Gospel that pointed right to Psalms and taught on that. I think it is wonderful to uncover all the places that the messiah is told of in OT. However from most seminary people and many preachers it is all Paul's epistles and the Gospels for the OT is past away. Is a shame in my opinion as well, I meet so many who have no clue about much of the laws given to Israel or many of the best stories of Gods love in the Hebrew Scriptures.
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RE: seriously - 6/8/2008 4:11:13 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: BibleL7
The sermon I preached when I was licensed was on the crucifixion using only one verse from Gospel that pointed right to Psalms and taught on that.
And that is the only sermon you preached while liscensed?
Does that mean you are not liscensed anymore?
Go figure.
Thanks
RC
< Message edited by rcjames -- 6/8/2008 4:17:13 PM >
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RE: seriously - 6/8/2008 5:52:12 PM
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pstrdebi
Posts: 563
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From: So. Oregon, by way of So. Cal.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bentzsur
why do most ministers stay away from the torah, unless they want you tithe. why focus on what Paul say's about the law(works) and avoid James in his view of this same issue.
We (my husband and I) teach on the entire Word of God... from Genesis to Revelation and all points in between. As far as we're concerned, you cannot have the NT without the OT. It is the basis... the history of everything we know. It is the genealogy and blood line of Jesus Christ. There are so many valuable lessons and teachings in both the Old and New Testaments... I just can't imagine never learning of Father Abraham... or Ruth and Boaz... The Psalms of David and the wisdom of Solomon. We would be missing so, so much.
Also in Duet. 4:2, Prov. 30:6, and Rev. 22:18-19... we are warned not to add to/or take away from (this) book. Many will argue that Those directions are specifically for the book of Revelation or the Ten Commandments. However I choose to believe that "God's Word is pure..." and "ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work." (2 Tim 3: 16-17)
Besides, how can you not teach the prophesies of the OT... in light of where we are (in history... ie: end times) today. And so much of the prophesies were pointing to and ushering in the birth, work, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Oh yes... we must teach the Old Testament along with the New.
Pastor Debi
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RE: seriously - 6/9/2008 12:05:37 AM
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Bro_Shane
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Sorry, but this has not been my experience.
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RE: seriously - 6/9/2008 7:46:32 AM
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Consecrated2God
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From: Jesus Land
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bentzsur
why do most ministers stay away from the torah, unless they want you tithe. why focus on what Paul say's about the law(works) and avoid James in his view of this same issue.
How would you know what most ministers do?
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RE: seriously - 6/9/2008 10:46:40 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Doc65
How can a pastor teach and proclaim the Word of God and Christ without preaching on the OT?
I use both, but more often use the NT.
But the Gospel can be well acclaimed using the NT only, it is quite sufficient.
Most OT teaching it to try and prove or to point out that Jesus was being spoken of there, and to understand that fact is not necessary for one to Believe in Christ. It would be more pertinant if the one being taught was Jewish.
Thanks
RC
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Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
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RE: seriously - 6/9/2008 10:55:33 AM
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colliefan
Posts: 2455
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From: Raleigh, NC
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2 Tim 3:16 - 17 (NASB) All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.
I believe this includes the OT.
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The grace of God is infinite and eternal. As it had no beginning, so it can have no end, and being an attribute of God, it is as boundless as infinitude.
A. W. Tozer (1897–1963)
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RE: seriously - 6/12/2008 3:14:40 AM
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BibleL7
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: BibleL7
The sermon I preached when I was licensed was on the crucifixion using only one verse from Gospel that pointed right to Psalms and taught on that.
And that is the only sermon you preached while liscensed?
Does that mean you are not liscensed anymore?
Go figure.
Thanks
RC
No not the only sermon just the one I preached the day I was licensed. The cerimony was at a sister church and the pastors decided to license me at the time of the usual sermon and had me preach the sermon. I have since heard that this is not usual practice. I have preached many sermons before and since that day. As to the second part No I am not currently licensed as I stepped down as I stated in another thread.
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RE: seriously - 6/12/2008 12:40:20 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3035
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bentzsur
why do most ministers stay away from the torah, unless they want you tithe. why focus on what Paul say's about the law(works) and avoid James in his view of this same issue.
Most of the time, such questions are only asked in order to provoke. As a Messianic believer, this reason for asking embarrasses me.
What was your reason?
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Abiyah
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
A tree's fruit is obvious; you have to look harder for the worm hole.
G-d has only one natural Son; EVERYONE else is adopted.
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RE: seriously - 6/12/2008 9:59:19 PM
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jn1010lf
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Hello bentzsur
It helps, in my opinion, to study and preach the OT because everything is a type of Christ, a partial of the complete unfolding of the NT. God's blueprint for life is outlined in the Ten Commandments but the power to live them comes when Christ lives in us.
It also helps to study the OT to see that Christ, the Messiah, was with the Father in the Creation. That's why Jesus could say that "Before Abraham was born, I AM.
I suppose may preachers avoid the OT because there are groups that call themselve Messianic. These folds think that being Jewish is next to God and that our roots in Jewish. But they don't understand that Christ, the Messiah, was the great I AM before there were Jews on the earth. In fact, Abraham was not a Jew, even though he is thought of as being the father of the Jews.
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RE: seriously - 6/12/2008 11:06:24 PM
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teachered
Posts: 46
Joined: 12/11/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jn1010lf
Hello bentzsur
It helps, in my opinion, to study and preach the OT because everything is a type of Christ, a partial of the complete unfolding of the NT. God's blueprint for life is outlined in the Ten Commandments but the power to live them comes when Christ lives in us.
It also helps to study the OT to see that Christ, the Messiah, was with the Father in the Creation. That's why Jesus could say that "Before Abraham was born, I AM.
I suppose may preachers avoid the OT because there are groups that call themselve Messianic. These folds think that being Jewish is next to God and that our roots in Jewish. But they don't understand that Christ, the Messiah, was the great I AM before there were Jews on the earth. In fact, Abraham was not a Jew, even though he is thought of as being the father of the Jews.
What do you mean by the first sentence in your last paragraph? I do not think that is why many preachers avoid the OT, I think that they skip over it because of ignorance. They do not know their roots.
Are you saying that there is no such thing as a Messianic Jew? I have been in church all of my life, however I did not accept Christ as my Savior untill 1997. It wasn't until 4 years ago that I learned that Jesus was a Jew. The just don't teach you that from most pulipits. Many "Christians" don't even know what the Torah is. I didn't until about 4 years ago.
Yes, our Savior is a Jew & he did not intend for us "Chrisitans, Catholic's, Messianic Jews, or whatever you call yourself" to take the place of HIS CHOSEN PEOPLE, THE JEWS. We Gentiles, were grafted in. There is so much sound teaching in the Torah (the first 5 books of the bible, for those of you who do not know what the Torah is). We do need to learn about our roots.
Shalom my friend!
< Message edited by teachered -- 6/12/2008 11:16:14 PM >
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RE: seriously - 6/13/2008 12:48:05 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3035
Joined: 6/8/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jn1010lf
Hello bentzsur
It helps, in my opinion, to study and preach the OT because everything is a type of Christ, a partial of the complete unfolding of the NT. God's blueprint for life is outlined in the Ten Commandments but the power to live them comes when Christ lives in us.
It also helps to study the OT to see that Christ, the Messiah, was with the Father in the Creation. That's why Jesus could say that "Before Abraham was born, I AM.
I suppose may preachers avoid the OT because there are groups that call themselve Messianic. These folds think that being Jewish is next to God and that our roots in Jewish. But they don't understand that Christ, the Messiah, was the great I AM before there were Jews on the earth. In fact, Abraham was not a Jew, even though he is thought of as being the father of the Jews.
I don't know what the churches do, because I only see the inside of a church when I go to work or that once-a-year-or-so that I attend a service for whatever reason. However, you have made some interesting statements regarding Messianics. I take it you attend Messianic services somewhere, where this kind of stuff goes on? If not, you are sorely mistaken, and what you have written here is not true.
I have known Bentzsur to be a good person in the past, not one to create havoc, especially where it is unwarranted, so why don't we wait and find out Bentzsur's reasoning for this thread?
I had asked Bentzsur to explain so that we won't go down another false "Messianics do this," "Messianics do that," and I am sure Bentzsur will answer.
_____________________________
Abiyah
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
A tree's fruit is obvious; you have to look harder for the worm hole.
G-d has only one natural Son; EVERYONE else is adopted.
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