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topless women - 11/28/2007 12:58:45 PM
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BeGone
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Ok. I thank everyone for their replies to the Nude Beach and resort thread. Have learned alot that will help me. But now let me ask about just going topless for women. How is this wrong? Both men and women have breast. A Woman's are just larger (not trying to mean or funny). How can the fact that a woman's breast are bigger and produces milk for children make it wrong to expose in public. Just wondering. Serious and helpful replies only.
thanks
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RE: topless women - 11/28/2007 1:04:44 PM
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ObviousLee
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For one it's obviously a cultural issue judging from National Geographic!
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RE: topless women - 11/28/2007 1:14:12 PM
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rcjames
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In some countries bare breast on women are forbidden by law, and othere fully accepted.
By virtue that we are to obey the law; where it is forbidden, it would be a sin.
Thanks
RC
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RE: topless women - 11/28/2007 2:32:12 PM
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LCannon
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"...The modesty thing was indicative of substantive differences among the three cultures I grown up in. I remember when the plane brought my Aunt Rachel's Sears catalog. My Waodani friends and I got to the underwear section I thought I should skip it but they were curious. I assumed they would be interested; they weren't. Then it dawned on me! Why should they think anything of girls just wearing underwear when they were surrounded by a whole tribe wearing nothing!"('End of The Spear' Steve Saint growing up in the jungles of Ecuador as a son of missionaries)
Point of reference.
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"Many of our prayers are for an easy solution. God is more glorifed in Him
when souls exhibit His Grace under pressure." -Elisabeth Elliot-
"But at my stumbling they gathered in glee...[but]How long, O Lord,
wilt thou look on?" -Psalms 35:15-
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RE: topless women - 11/28/2007 3:25:59 PM
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iwillfearnoevil
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quote:
ORIGINAL: BeGone
Ok. I thank everyone for their replies to the Nude Beach and resort thread. Have learned alot that will help me. But now let me ask about just going topless for women. How is this wrong? Both men and women have breast.
do you honestly find men's breats a sexual turnon?
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RE: topless women - 11/28/2007 4:11:03 PM
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figmentPez
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Ezekiel 16:7-8
7"I made you numerous like plants of the field. Then you grew up, became tall and reached the age for fine ornaments; your breasts were formed and your hair had grown. Yet you were naked and bare. 8"Then I passed by you and saw you, and behold, you were at the time for love; so I spread My skirt over you and covered your nakedness I also swore to you and entered into a covenant with you so that you became Mine," declares the Lord GOD.
In this passage (a metaphor about God's relationship with Jerusalem) God describes breasts and genitals as nakedness to be covered. Later Jerusalem plays the harlot by showing off her nakedness. I think this makes it pretty clear that adult women are not to go topless.
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RE: topless women - 11/28/2007 8:14:32 PM
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TonyRush
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I don't know the correct answer to the OP's question. But, I remember a story in the NY Times a few years ago where a lady walked on the subway topless and had the same argument: "Men have breasts, too, and they go shirtless....why can't I?" She was arrested for indecent exposure.
Later, in court, the judge laughed at her argument and said, "Please. Who do you think you're kidding? A woman's breast is completely different from a man's breast."
So, whatever we say, there are apparently some legal precedents to suggest that a woman's breast is most definitely something different from a man's.
Tony
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RE: topless women - 11/28/2007 11:02:19 PM
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lexie
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quote:
I remember a story in the NY Times a few years ago where a lady walked on the subway topless and had the same argument: "Men have breasts, too, and they go shirtless....why can't I?"
That kind of reasoning made women going topless legal in Toronto a few years back. Here's what happened. There was a huge fight for it, it became legal, very few women went topless (I don't know anyone who saw a topless woman in the city).
One woman went topless while walking downtown. A man in his car circled the block a number of times so he could continually get a look at her breasts. I believe he then caused a car accident.
To me, this is why it is seen as wrong, because North American culture has sexualized the breast to a point where most people can't see past that as it's only function.
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RE: topless women - 11/29/2007 1:32:28 AM
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Okami
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In my opinion, it would depend on the law of the land.
Here, it is "indecent exposure".
Overseas, it's just tanning.
In some countries, it's everyday wear.
quote:
ORIGINAL: figmentPez
Ezekiel 16:7-8
7"I made you numerous like plants of the field. Then you grew up, became tall and reached the age for fine ornaments; your breasts were formed and your hair had grown. Yet you were naked and bare. 8"Then I passed by you and saw you, and behold, you were at the time for love; so I spread My skirt over you and covered your nakedness I also swore to you and entered into a covenant with you so that you became Mine," declares the Lord GOD.
In this passage (a metaphor about God's relationship with Jerusalem) God describes breasts and genitals as nakedness to be covered. Later Jerusalem plays the harlot by showing off her nakedness. I think this makes it pretty clear that adult women are not to go topless.
The ezekiel passage refers not to just covering someone because they were naked.
The women walked around naked. The male covering them with a "skirt" was how they claimed them. It was a metaphor yes, using a reference they would be familiar with. That is part of why Ruth asked to have herself covered when looking for a kinsman redeemer.
Later, when they refer to "naked, and squirming with blood" , it refers to the same thing. They walked around naked, even during menstruation.
In the harlot reference, "nakedness" refers to "shame", or "something hidden one doesn't want revealed".
"And the nakedness of your harlotries will be uncovered, both your lewdness and your harlotries".
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RE: topless women - 11/29/2007 1:43:40 AM
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believeinhim2
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Right or wrong the fact is it is simply unnecessary.
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RE: topless women - 11/29/2007 5:29:57 AM
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GrahamCracker
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Generally, women do not gawk at men's shirtless tops. But we cannot say that men don't gawk at women's tops.
Shoot! Ask any woman if men still refrain just because they are covered.
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Larry
Sure we're under the law, everybody knows that!
When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. (Heb 10:13)
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RE: topless women - 11/29/2007 8:46:33 AM
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SonInMe1
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A few years ago it was legal for women to go topless at the beach.
It kept me and my family from the beach...no doubt.
There is much power for a woman to be sexually attractive to men. This is just another way for...some...women to extract more power.
There is no reason for this.
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You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: topless women - 11/29/2007 10:47:30 AM
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stellaluna
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lexie
To me, this is why it is seen as wrong, because North American culture has sexualized the breast to a point where most people can't see past that as it's only function.
There you go. It's sad, really.
And anyone who thinks women don't get "turned on" by seeing a shirtless man is seriously delusional. Goes both ways, folks.
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RE: topless women - 11/29/2007 10:50:05 AM
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BeesKnees
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quote:
For one it's obviously a cultural issue judging from National Geographic!
I beg your pardon?
Pagan social observances, be they New Guinean, African, (or French for that matter), create moral discrepancies, this is not simply cultural.
Unbelievable...
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RE: topless women - 11/29/2007 11:03:25 AM
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GrahamCracker
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
quote:
ORIGINAL: lexie
To me, this is why it is seen as wrong, because North American culture has sexualized the breast to a point where most people can't see past that as it's only function.
There you go. It's sad, really.
And anyone who thinks women don't get "turned on" by seeing a shirtless man is seriously delusional. Goes both ways, folks.
I'm not suggesting that women are not aroused by men's shirtless bodies, but women are not as easily aroused by sight as men are.
Witness the proliferation of pornography for men. While women's pornography exists, the industry is by far much smaller.
_____________________________
Larry
Sure we're under the law, everybody knows that!
When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. (Heb 10:13)
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RE: topless women - 11/29/2007 11:11:55 AM
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p31woman
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quote:
Witness the proliferation of pornography for men. While women's pornography exists, the industry is by far much smaller.
Maybe women just watch "men's" pornography. (I did.)
As to the OP, it's a cultural thing. Not all women's breasts are bigger than all men's.
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RE: topless women - 11/29/2007 11:20:35 AM
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stellaluna
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quote:
ORIGINAL: BeesKnees
quote:
For one it's obviously a cultural issue judging from National Geographic!
I beg your pardon?
Pagan social observances, be they New Guinean, African, (or French for that matter), create moral discrepancies, this is not simply cultural.
Unbelievable...
I agree that it is also largely cultural. Lack of clothing doesn't necessarily have anything to do with religious belief and morality does not dictate that a culture view women's breasts solely as sex organs. They were put their to feed children, not as gifts to give to men.
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RE: topless women - 11/29/2007 11:43:15 AM
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Fritzpw_Admin
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
quote:
ORIGINAL: BeesKnees
quote:
For one it's obviously a cultural issue judging from National Geographic!
I beg your pardon?
Pagan social observances, be they New Guinean, African, (or French for that matter), create moral discrepancies, this is not simply cultural.
Unbelievable...
I agree that it is also largely cultural. Lack of clothing doesn't necessarily have anything to do with religious belief and morality does not dictate that a culture view women's breasts solely as sex organs. They were put their to feed children, not as gifts to give to men.
Actually, it was both.
Just like several other sexual organs in our bodies, they have duel purposes.
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RE: topless women - 11/29/2007 11:52:00 AM
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p31woman
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How are breasts sexual organs? Erogenous zones, maybe, like lips or earlobes or nose tissue that all engorge upon arousal-- just like men's breasts-- but sexual organs? I don't think so.
_____________________________
So don't let anyone pass judgment on you in connection with eating and drinking, or in regard to a Jewish festival or Rosh-Hodesh or Shabbat. These are a shadow of things that are coming, but the body is of the Messiah. Colossians 2:16-17
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RE: topless women - 11/29/2007 11:57:08 AM
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GrahamCracker
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quote:
ORIGINAL: p31woman
How are breasts sexual organs? Erogenous zones, maybe, like lips or earlobes or nose tissue that all engorge upon arousal-- just like men's breasts-- but sexual organs? I don't think so.
Fritz was right. Parts of our genitals serve more than one purpose.
_____________________________
Larry
Sure we're under the law, everybody knows that!
When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. (Heb 10:13)
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RE: topless women - 11/29/2007 11:58:40 AM
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Child4Jesus
Posts: 311
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From: Long Island, Nassau, Elmont, NY
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quote:
ORIGINAL: BeGone
Ok. I thank everyone for their replies to the Nude Beach and resort thread. Have learned alot that will help me. But now let me ask about just going topless for women. How is this wrong? Both men and women have breast. A Woman's are just larger (not trying to mean or funny). How can the fact that a woman's breast are bigger and produces milk for children make it wrong to expose in public. Just wondering. Serious and helpful replies only.
thanks
It's the fact that in this society womens breast are considered much more sexual than a mans bear chest. Only in some societies around the world is ordinary for women to walk around topless. This however doesn't take away from the fact that womens breasts in those places still arouse sexual desire.
I personally believe that any rational person could gather from the Bible that the only person a man or woman should ever see naked, I'm not talking about accidentally seeing someone nude, is the husband or wife. Obviously if you changing a babies clothes or in medicine these are exceptions.
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RE: topless women - 11/29/2007 12:00:34 PM
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miasma
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quote:
Erogenous zones, maybe, like lips or earlobes or nose tissue that all engorge upon arousal-- just like men's breasts-- but sexual organs? I don't think so.
100% correct.
It is a cultural thing, which means in this country, largely a religious thing. Read about the history of Purtianism in this country, Victorian sexual morays, etc. You'll reach this conclusion:
quote:
North American culture has sexualized the breast to a point where most people can't see past that as it's only function.
(among others)
I don't have a problem with "topless women," it's usual and ordinary in Europe and quite a lot of the rest of the world.
quote:
Here, it is "indecent exposure".
Overseas, it's just tanning.
In some countries, it's everyday wear.
Or as Marlene Dietrich put it, "In America, sex is an obsession, in other parts of the world it's a fact."
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About Sarah Palin...
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RE: topless women - 11/29/2007 12:01:05 PM
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Child4Jesus
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[/quote]
I agree that it is also largely cultural. Lack of clothing doesn't necessarily have anything to do with religious belief and morality does not dictate that a culture view women's breasts solely as sex organs. They were put their to feed children, not as gifts to give to men.[/quote]
I LOL at the part I bold.
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Richad
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RE: topless women - 11/29/2007 12:01:42 PM
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p31woman
Posts: 656
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From: Texas, and now South Dakota
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quote:
Fritz was right. Parts of our genitals serve more than one purpose.
Genitals by definition are reproductive organs. A man or woman without breasts can still reproduce, and still enjoy sex.
_____________________________
So don't let anyone pass judgment on you in connection with eating and drinking, or in regard to a Jewish festival or Rosh-Hodesh or Shabbat. These are a shadow of things that are coming, but the body is of the Messiah. Colossians 2:16-17
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RE: topless women - 11/29/2007 12:06:25 PM
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Child4Jesus
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In NYC women are allowed to go topless on the beach and if they want walk around on the street topless unless they are advertising something like, Go to Joes across the back or something.
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Richad
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